How To Get Rid Of Knee Pain Forever, The Best Knee Rehab Exercises, The Ancient Chinese Technique To Keep Your Knees Young & More With Ben Patrick, The “Knees Over Toes Guy.”

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Ben Patrick (the “Knees Over Toes Guy”), is the coach and founder of the “Athletic Truth Group” (ATG), a gym and online training service based out of Clearwater Beach, Florida.

Ben overcame debilitating knee and shin pain, as well as subsequent surgeries, through a personal journey taking knee and foot strength training means to their fullest potential.

With his methods, Ben transformed his basketball career, going from being continually injured and under-achieving to having a successful junior college stint through improving his own knee health and performance. This culminated for Ben with a scholarship offer to Boston University for basketball, but due to NCAA eligibility rules, Ben turned it down and began training athletes.

Many people have been recommending Ben’s methods as completely transformative in their knee pain, and recently I've begun experimenting with his programs, so thought I would have Ben on the show to discuss his very unique approach to healing the knees.

During our discussion, you'll discover:

-How Ben became involved with treating knee pain…06:50

  • “What would John Stockton do?”
  • Chronic knee problems from age 12-20
  • Knees over toes” was considered taboo for the longest time
  • Pressure within reason causes a body to age biologically younger
  • It's a knee ability program (abiliknee.com is available btw)
  • Jumping is the #1 cause of knee pain among young people
  • Ben addressed knee problems by taking care of his hamstrings as a younger man
  • Painkiller addiction can increase the risk of injury by masking the pain

-Why walking backward is so beneficial to the health of the knees…21:45

-Fundamental knee exercises that can be done anywhere, anytime…37:22

-Why focus on the tibialis muscles and hip flexors…48:57


  • Stronger shin muscles = a lighter-feeling body
  • We all have the same odds of knee problems as obese people without focusing on the tibialis
  • Video of tibialis raise
  • MJ dunking from foul line video
  • We all have tight hip flexors
  • Hip flexors are the biggest differentiator between sprinters and average folk

-Tools and techniques to strengthen the knees…56:16

-Why Ben doesn't heavily focus on the glutes in his program…1:03:47

-And much more…

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Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.

Resources from this episode:

– Ben Patrick:

– Other Resources:

Episode sponsors:

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Do you have questions, thoughts, or feedback for Ben Patrick or me? Leave your comments below and one of us will reply!


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20 thoughts on “How To Get Rid Of Knee Pain Forever, The Best Knee Rehab Exercises, The Ancient Chinese Technique To Keep Your Knees Young & More With Ben Patrick, The “Knees Over Toes Guy.”

  1. PJ says:

    Hey Ben,

    Great information! What are your thoughts on cycling on a spinning style bike backwards? Or concept 2 rowing? To help build knee strength. Or is it best to walk backwards?

    Thank!

    -PJ

  2. Katheen says:

    Fabulous information and most helpful for someone like me with years of knee issues.

    I just wish Ben G would let his guests do more of the talking. Highly arrogant.

  3. Tim says:

    Hello Ben Patrick, thanks for all the great value you put out. I noticed you have two books on Amazon released only a month apart, what is the difference between them?

  4. Alastair says:

    Hi Ben and Ben,

    Here’s a question for Ben (KOT Guy) – i previously undertook a hip flexibility challenge which involved daily, long held (5 minute) static stretches. I thought it was doing me some good but in hindsight, it potentially contributed to a labrum tear as scans and xrays showed that i have a cam deformity and these stretches were causing it to impact on the labrum ….so, the walking backwards thing i totally dig but part of me is super nervous about the impact of doing something like the split squat when I know i have this hip deformity?

    Your input is appreciated.

    Alastair.

  5. Elaina Long says:

    That was a great show! I’ve been out in my garden pushing and pulling a wheelbarrow of bricks and a day later my VMO has felt like it has been worked so certainly strengthening the right muscles for the knees. One question though, hopefully not too late, most people’s tibialis (particularly on the right is very often in isometric contraction whilst driving so why work the tibialis? I found the knee with the most problems is my right and it is when I stop working the calves and put it down to too much tension on the tibs during driving. I would love to know your opinion on this. Thanks!

  6. Kristen Miller says:

    Great episode! I’d like to do sled work but live on a dirt road. How can in use a sled on a dirt road? Or something like it?

    Thanks!

  7. Brian Kaz says:

    Hey Ben (Greenfield), you mentioned the program you put together addressing the S.I. Joint and Hips…any chance you could post a link with that?

    I’ve been unsuccessful in finding it. Thanks brother!

    1. It was called "Run With No Pain". You could likely Google it.

  8. Miranda says:

    Loved the episode! Just bought the book. I’m really interested in the sled exercises. Are there any cheaper sleds that would be ok to use while saving up for a nicer one that will have a similar effect? I see some push/pull ones on Amazon that are much cheaper but without wheels and wondering if they might suffice or if I should just wait until I’ve saved enough for the larger one. Thank you!

  9. RKT says:

    Ben KOT Guy- I didn’t notice anything about torn Meniscus / ACL recovery. Can your ATG exercises result in full knee range of motion even with torn meniscus? Pre-injury I could do it no problem (I trained with Charles Poliquin)

  10. Anthony Guastella says:

    So, how long for the backward walking?

  11. Billy White says:

    I thought this was a podcast normally backed by science.. I guess not.

    This guy comes across phds and all biomechanists all the time. Just to take his post down and never respond with actual science or research

    1. Mike says:

      Greetings, I agree with you completely that science has to backup claims that are made. I’ve pushed back on the site here when people make outlandish claims, particularly around COVID.

      However there seems to be solid research on backward walking check out this study-
      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30229667/

      1. Ben says:

        Thank you so much! That’s exactly right. There’s not a single thing I do that I can’t show you studies showing exactly why it’s needed and underrated.

    2. Ben says:

      In my case I’m actually taking a stand for the science that is proven but not being used. Here’s an article by a Doctor of Physical Therapy: https://link.medium.com/97AaId7qvmb

      You are welcome for sacrificing my career to help people WITH SCIENCE <3

    3. Jeffrey Yoder says:

      Please clarify what you are talking about….are you talking about Ben Greenfield, Ben Patrick or what!?

      1. Ryan Baxter says:

        Around 44 min Greenfield asks Patrick so that’s the secret, doing reverse out knee pain and split squats? Having listened to Patrick for nearly 2 years I think he was trying to say the secret is about understanding how to regress things that you cannot do. At this point he describes how he had to use negative weight or assistance and then could progress. Mentions taking the ego out. So the secret is don’t get caught up in what you cannot do and start doing what you can do and make some progression. It’s kind of like physical therapy finally to get people in pain back to doing regular things extended all the way through explosive athletic training came together. None of this is a quick fix but the principles Patrick are laying out are super important. If your body isn’t using it then it’s not going to be ready when you try to do something more aggressive. Build from the weakest links into the stronger lifts. I highly recommend going over and subscribing for at least a while with Patrick and you’ll figure it out.

    4. John Clayton says:

      Hi Billy, I think Ben’s (KOTG) pretty honest about which parts of ATG are backed by science and which are extending research. From what I’ve heard in other podcasts Ben is hoping science catches up with specific studies around movements such as ATG split squat. Here is a study on backward running https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331050160_Backward_Running_The_Why_and_How_to_Program_for_Better_Athleticism and this one is a thesis paper on https://openrepository.aut.ac.nz/handle/10292/12637. Here’s a Systematic review of Range of motion on specifically related to hypertrophy https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2050312120901559

  12. Mike says:

    Wow! What a great show. Chock full of useful information. My advice go to youtube to top-off on this subject. I’m definitely going to give the backward walking a try. Note also on youtube are a bunch of videos on DIY Drag Sleds. More shows like this Ben!

    1. Ben (KOT Guy) says:

      Awesome! Thanks Mike!

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