February 27, 2020
Dr. Paul Saladino is back. The “Carnivore MD,” after originally appearing on my show on the episodes…
Everything You Need to Know About the Carnivore Diet
Carnivore Diet, Cleaning Out Your Colon, Eating Brains, Hunting Zebras & Much More
…has just put the finishing touches on his new book The Carnivore Code and graciously agreed to record an epic solosode for my listeners. Dr. Saladino delves into all the questions you asked him in the comments section after our first couple of episodes together. Prepare for a complete carnivore education!
In this episode, you'll discover:
-How Paul defines the carnivore diet…5:42
- It's a diet that emphasizes and focuses on animal foods
- The majority of our nutrients comes from animal foods
- Aware of plant toxicity; minimal (or no) plant matter
- The best place for vitamins and minerals is animals, with the exception of Vitamin C
- “Nose to tail” idea
- Most toxic plant foods:
- Grains, legumes, nuts, seeds
- Seeds are highly defended by the plants; high levels of toxicity
- Most leafy greens are toxic for humans
- High oxalate foods – almonds, root veggies
- Moderately toxic:
- High fructose foods: honey, berries
- Sweet potatoes, other sweet tubers and roots
- Least toxic:
- Avocados, olives, squash
- Ben's cronometer of his daily diet
- A carnivore diet is not simply muscle meat
- Nose to tail
- Includes bones, marrow, cartilage
- Carnivore diet is a “soft” keto diet
- 1:1 ratio (1 gram of protein per pound of body weight)
-How the carnivore diet affects athletic performance…17:25
- Studies referenced:
- Ensure you check your salt levels if on a low-carb diet (10+ grams per day)
-How to get adequate iodine while on the carnivore diet…29:30
- Redmond Sea Salt (from the ground in Utah)
- No microplastics
- 10 g of Redmond has 150 mcg of iodine (equivalent to the RDA)
- Red meat
- Egg yolks (100 mcg with 4 egg yolks)
- Don't take too much iodine
-Whether the entire global population could be on a carnivore diet…32:45
- Is the current agricultural system working?
- Currently U.S. system is mono-crop agriculture (nutrient depletion, no animals to replenish nutrients)
- Just plants on land is “feedlot feeding” of plants
- Regenerative agriculture (ecosystem feeding)
- Grass feeding and finishing is the optimal situation
- Regenerative agriculture is carbon negative
- White Oak Pastures is a good example of regenerative agriculture
- Multiple species on the same lot reduces parasite presence
- The current agriculture system is unsustainable
-Why the stressor of eating plants is different from a “good” stressor like exercise…42:09
- Plant molecules are plant pharmaceuticals
- Plant and human biochemistry are mutually dependent
- There is no “package insert” of side effects that comes when eating plants
- Paul's first podcast with Ben talked about “collateral damage” in plants
- Plants ameliorate symptoms, not treating the root cause
- Glutathione levels in cold water study
- We don't need sulforaphane to get adequate glutathione
- If we live a “radical lifestyle” of environmental hormetics, we don't need the plant molecules
- Studies referenced:
-How the carnivore diet activates pathways in our bodies…54:50
- Environmental hormetics: heat, cold, exercise, etc.
- Nrf2 pathway is affected positively by plant intake
- Sirtuin pathways activated by resveratrol
- Doses in a nose to tail diet are adequate
- Studies referenced:
- 5. Ketogenic Diet Modulates NAD+-Dependent Enzymes and Reduces DNA Damage in Hippocampus
- 6. Nutritional Ketosis Increases NAD+/NADH Ratio in Healthy Human Brain: An in Vivo Study by 31P-MRS
- 7. Ketones improves Apolipoprotein E4-related memory deficiency via sirtuin 3
- 8. Keto-adaptation enhances exercise performance and body composition responses to training in endurance athletes
- 9. Effect of increasing fruit and vegetable intake by dietary intervention on nutritional biomarkers and attitudes to dietary change: a randomised trial
- 10. Resveratrol Reduces the Levels of Circulating Androgen Precursors But Has No Effect on, Testosterone, Dihydrotestosterone, PSA Levels or Prostate Volume. A 4-Month Randomized Trial in Middle-Aged Men
- 11. Placebo-controlled, randomised clinical trial: high- dose resveratrol treatment for non-alcoholic fatty liver disease
- 12. The Essential Medicinal Chemistry of Curcumin
- 13. The dark side of curcumin
-Whether pH reaches acidic levels on the carnivore diet…1:13:36
- Yes, if it is not constructed properly
- Acid load is balanced on: protein and minerals
- If we get enough minerals, it will balance the protein acidity
- Many on the carnivore diet don't get enough calcium
- Many minerals that are only present in bones
- Bone broth is the easiest way to do this (just add vinegar)
- Studies referenced:
- 14. Estimation of the renal net acid excretion by adults consuming diets containing variable amounts of protein
- 15. Potential renal acid load of foods and its influence on urine pH
- 16. Estimation of Renal Function in Patients with Eating Disorders
- 17. Effect of Low-Carbohydrate High-Protein Diets on Acid-Base Balance, Stone-Forming Propensity, and Calcium Metabolism
- 18. Essential and toxic metals in animal bone broths
- 19. Effect of a supplement rich in alkaline minerals on acid-base balance in humans
- 20. Effects of fruit and vegetable consumption on inflammatory biomarkers and immune cell populations: a systematic literature review and meta-analysis
-IGF and mTOR when it comes to the carnivore diet…1:26:32
- Paul's podcast with James Clement: Will eating an animal-based diet over-activate mTOR?
- The Switch by James Clement
- No ketones in the blood is not a good thing
- Depleted liver glycogen produces ketones
- High carb diet will activate mTOR
- Balance with intermittent or complete fasting
- Gain muscle on a carnivore diet by eating more frequently: 4 oz. of meat 3-4 times a day
- Paul's podcast with Gabrielle Lyon: Does protein cause cancer?
-Whether the carnivore diet is a concern for Alzheimer's…1:30:57
- APO e4 is a variant of apolipoprotein E
- It is the most ancestral isoform
- “It was eating meat that made us human”
- Paul's podcast with Tommy Wood: Should you worry about ApoE4 on a keto/carnivore diet and how to avoid Alzheimer’s disease
- APO e4 is only an issue if we're insulin resistant
- The vast majority of Americans are insulin resistant
- It can be beneficial in populations that are not insulin resistant
- Remain in the elite of the population (insulin sensitive)
- Studies referenced:
- 21. Apolipoprotein E4 is associated with improved cognitive function in Amazonian forager-horticulturalists with a high parasite burden
- 22. Inflammatory Gene Variants in the Tsimane, an Indigenous Bolivian Population with a High Infectious Load
- 23. Prevalence of Optimal Metabolic Health in American Adults: National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey 2009–2016
- 24. APOE ε4, the door to insulin-resistant dyslipidemia and brain fog? A case study
- 25. APOE genotype influences insulin resistance, apolipoprotein CII and CIII according to plasma fatty acid profile in the Metabolic Syndrome
- 26. High Dietary Saturated Fat Intake Accentuates Obesity Risk Associated with the Fat Mass and Obesity–Associated Gene in Adults
- 27. Controversies Surrounding High-Protein Diet Intake: Satiating Effect and Kidney and Bone Health
- 28. Cholesterol, APOE genotype, and Alzheimer disease: An epidemiologic study of Nigerian Yoruba
-Carnivore diet for those with FTO mutations and that are over methylators…1:42:28
- Saturated fats come from mislabeled trans fats or junk food
- People who eat animal products eat more healthy saturated fats
- Epidemiology can only produce hypotheses
- Paul's typical daily diet:
- 16 oz. grass-fed organic steak
- 85 g of suet mixed with homemade bone broth
- 4-5 egg yolks with a generous serving of salt
- For dinner: all of the above, plus liver, brain, heart, suet with bone broth, and salt
- There are no over or under methylators
- Get riboflavin from organ meats and heart (need 2-3 mg per day)
-Paul's lab results…1:50:00
- LDL-HDL levels
- No correlation between HDL when LDL rises and cardiovascular disease
- The higher the LDL, the longer we live (provided we're insulin sensitive)
-Rapid-fire questions…1:53:54
- How long should you do the carnivore diet before you know of its efficacy?
- No “cheat days” – don't reward yourself with bad food
- Carnivore diet benefits are from an immunological perspective
- Minimum 60-day reset is advocated in the book
- Are chicken and eggs okay on the carnivore diet?
- Info that says animal products are low in Vitamin K count only Vitamin K1; they are high in Vitamin K2
- Eggs are fine; Paul prefers the yolks only
- What parts of the animal should you not eat?
- The adrenals
- Does Paul take supplements?
- None at the moment
- Would a woman need time to adapt to the carnivore diet?
- Is the carnivore diet advisable for pregnancy, breastfeeding, or children?
-Phospholipid forms of DHA w/ the carnivore diet…2:01:48
- We get phospholipids from our food
- Paul is not a fan of omega 3 supplementation (they're highly oxidized)
-Whether cruciferous vegetables cause hypothyroidism…2:05:23
- Studies referenced:
- 29. Genotoxic effects of crude juices from Brassica vegetables and juices and extracts from phytopharmaceutical preparations and spices of cruciferous plants origin in bacterial and mammalian cells
- 30. Concentrations of thiocyanate and goitrin in human plasma, their precursor concentrations in brassica vegetables, and associated potential risk for hypothyroidism
- 31. Iodine deficiency disorders and endemic goiter
- 32. Role of dietary iodine and cruciferous vegetables in thyroid cancer: a countrywide case–control study in New Caledonia
- 33. Estrogenic Effects of Extracts from Cabbage, Fermented Cabbage, and Acidified Brussels Sprouts on Growth and Gene Expression of Estrogen-Dependent Human Breast Cancer (MCF-7) Cells
- 34. Genotoxicity studies of organically grown broccoli (Brassica oleracea var. italica) and its interactions with urethane, methyl methanesulfonate and 4-nitroquinoline-1-oxide genotoxicity in the wing spot test of Drosophila melanogaster
-And much more!
Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.
Resources from this episode:
–The Carnivore Code by Dr. Paul Saladino
-BGF podcasts with Paul Saladino:
- Everything You Need to Know About the Carnivore Diet
- Carnivore Diet, Cleaning Out Your Colon, Eating Brains, Hunting Zebras & Much More
–Fundamental Health podcasts mentioned:
- James Clement: Will eating an animal based diet over-activate mTOR?
- Gabrielle Lyon: Does protein cause cancer?
- Tommy Wood: Should you worry about ApoE4 on a keto/carnivore diet and how to avoid Alzheimer’s disease
- Dave Feldman
- Paul's lab results
- Jamie Seeman
-Ben's new album, Rocky Roots
Episode sponsors:
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Thanks for sharing the wonderful tips and information.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=133n0BTYXOQ&feature=youtu.be
The diet/ lifestyle he’s prescribing is simple- just find a local farmer who’s meat is raised following regenerative practices (.001% of meat produced), eat nose-to-tail all day, every day (.01% would do this), and live a radical life when you’re not busy preparing bone broth (people who don’t work because they have a trust fund). Failing that regime best to stick with are ancestors ate; 125g of fiber a day.
Very frustrating that from week to week Paul vs Mark Hyman the advice is 180 degrees different. Sometimes I wonder if anyone “knows” anything!
How do you address dietary plans for folks with genetic saturated sensitivity or intolerance? i.e. FTO x4, ACE, & HMGCR gene variants.
I discuss this in detail in my book! FTO is not an issue, I also discussed in this podcast.
Notions that these gene variants can’t tolerate saturated fat are unfounded and generally based on epidemiology.
If you look at this study for ACE SNPs BP did not change between the groups even with HF dairy as part of the intervention.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5523633/
Ultimately, watch your anthropometric data and see what works for you but for the VAST majority of people saturated fat from well raised animals is not an issue.
Hope this helps!
The carnivore diet appears to be fringe science. Almost every single major medical organization that provides dietary advice advises individuals to increase consumption of fruits and vegetables or at least to have five servings
a day.
There are little or no epidemiological or mortality studies published in major medical journals that support a high consumption of meat. In fact, most such studies indicate that a high consumption of meat increases the risk of disease. In contra, there are hundreds of studies that seem to indicate that a high consumption of fruits, vegetable and / or nuts decreases the risk of disease. There is no need to cherry pick studies. The overwhelming majority of studies support a diet high in plant based foods.
On another podcast, Dr. Saladino stated that the Okinawan and Icelandic diets are supportive of high meat consumption. This does not appear to be correct.
Okinawans had negative health consequences when they increased meat consumption and decreased plant consumption More specifically, ADR of ischemic heart disease and the ADR of cerebrovascular disease increased in men under these conditions. Furthermore, the standard mortality ratios of heart disease and cerebrovascular disease for increased for both sexesunder these conditions. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18924533
The Icelandic diet also does not seem to support high meat consumption.
“According to nutritionist Lily Soutter, the Icelandic diet is typically low in saturated fat, yet high in healthy omega 3 fatty acids. “This combination is perfect for supporting cardiovascular health,” she asserts. “Most of these healthy fats come from fresh, locally caught fish; in fact the Icelandic cuisine contains four times the amount of seafood found in the cuisine of other countries.”
“The diet of an Icelander tends to be high in fibre and low in sugar, both of which are great factors for balancing blood sugar and preventing type 2 diabetes. Much of the food is local and seasonal meaning it will be fresher and in some cases more nutrient-dense. Typically, there is very little processed food within the Icelandic diet.”
“How does the Icelandic diet compare with the widely lauded Mediterranean diet? “As a whole, consumption of fresh fruit and vegetables may be lower in Nordic countries than in warmer Mediterranean climates. However, the Icelandic diet is not so different from the Mediterranean diet in the fact that it advocates moderate consumption of fat and protein. Mediterranean diets tend to focus on olive oil, nuts, beans and sardines whilst Icelanders focus on canola oil (rapeseed oil), wild berries, root vegetables and cod”
See https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/nutrit…
There is evidence of any culture that I am aware of that does well in terms of longevity on a high meat diet.
Perhaps another point of potential interest, is what the leading longevity scientist, Dr. David Sinclair eats and believes:
“David tries to limit his protein intake, and specifically red meat
Why? A molecule in meat (Trimethylamine N-oxide – TMAO) has been linked to heart diseaseThere’s a lot of amino acids in meat – high amino acid levels activate the mTOR pathway. He does eat some fish, and occasionally chicken”
See https://podcastnotes.org/joe-rogan-experience/sin…
Also see the following additional Dr. David Sinclair article entitled: High protein diets may accelerate aging more than we thought:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/high-protein-diets…
I have a typo or couple of typos as usual. I usually in a rush. I will correct one of the typos.
“There is <> evidence of any culture that I am aware of that does well in terms of longevity on a high meat diet.”
Heck, the website automatically took the word “no” out of the brackets. Here is one more shot at correction
“There is no evidence of any culture that I am aware of that does well in terms of longevity on a high meat diet.”
Sorry but I have to agree. I love BGF podcasts and the content but in this regard he’s just painfully biased. For whatever reason. He should invite someone like Michael Greger and have a fight. That would be both interesting and every listener can make his own opinion.
Someone should point out your own bias (that you’re completely unaware of).
Yes I am biased but I had the chance to make my own opinion based on facts. Ben does simply ignore the facts in this regard. I have never came across any neutral discussion on this topic and he’s constantly bashing anyting plant based.
Everyone has some degree of bias and that’s okay
There are weaknesses and strengths to probably all diets. However, only one side is reported and supported here. That’s unfortunate.
I read most of the peer reviewed dietary studies that make it to the major science and health news outlets. The overwhelming majority of these dietary studies support a diet high in fruits, vegetables, and nuts. That’s not bias. That’s fact. (This is evidenced by the studies themselves) Ben and his guests often provide information that contradicts the best known scientific studies we have today.
Ben should have guests on like Dan Buettner (Bluezones) and Dr. Ford Brewer (Mainstream MD), as well as some folks that are strictly plant based (Rich Roll, Dr. Michael Gregger) to give some opposing view points.
I did browse Dr. Saladino’s site. Kudos to him!
He appears to invite several people on his own podcast that have viewpoints that oppose his own. Ben should follow this practice as well.
I’d happily debate Michael Greger but he won’t show up. I’ve asked multiple times.
I’ve had David Sinclair on my podcast and addressed many of these issues with him directly. I’ve also debated James Clement on these issues.
If you’d like a more detailed discussion of the poor science surrounding Blue Zones this can be found in my new book. I hope you’ll check it out.
Are there any references regarding plant toxicity?
Besides the ones citing Brassicas…
I’m more referring to the list that was presented in the beginning of the talk.
Lots and lots in the book! www.thecarnivorecodebook.com
I am really curious to hear how you consume 10+ grams of salt per day? Put it in your water or just on food? Capsule it?
Should people who are keto consume more salt as well? I would LOVE to hear a bit more about the salt consumption.
THANKS, love the podcast!
I have wondered this too. If plants are toxic what are the animals eating? Toxic plants? Wouldnt that make the animal toxic?
Ben,
Another great read. I’ve had Boundless now for two weeks and am amazed at the detail you’ve included. I’m using it more as a reference book than a direct read as there is just to much to digest in one sitting.
Any chance that you might post some bio hacking best practices for what we might do in the event of a viral infection? With what’s in the news lately I’d like to have a protocol in place that my family and I can implement.
All the Best.
C
The dark side of curcumin link is broken.
J