[Transcript] – BioGeometry Protection Of Your Home, Plant Medicine, Parenting, Stacking Rocks, Stages Of Human Consciousness & More With Paul Chek.

Affiliate Disclosure


From podcast: https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/lifestyle-podcasts/biogeometry/

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:02:23] Podcast Sponsors

[00:05:15] BioGeometry and why Paul calls his house the “Rainbow House”

[00:15:52] Second Sight and How We Can “See” What Is Happening in The Spiritual Realm Around Us

[00:21:51] How to Use BioGeometry in Your Own Home

[00:31:37] Podcast Sponsors

[00:33:39] How Paramagnetism, The Sun's Energy, and “Thought Forms” Were Used to Build the Pyramids

[00:48:11] Tobacco, Volcanic, And Herb Blends to Enhance Your Life

[00:58:10] About Paul's Upcoming Book

[01:05:42] Why Simply Listening Is the Best Way to Learn Anything

[01:11:22] Paul's Thoughts On Raising Young Children as an Older Man

[01:15:24] How Paul Learned The “Backstory” Of His Two Children and The Impact They'll Make in The World

[01:26:30] Paul's Habit for Digesting Books and Keeping Track of What He Learns

[01:43:29] Advice for Health Professionals to Make a Lasting and Meaningful Impact

[01:49:49] Final Comments

[01:52:50] End of Podcast

Ben:  On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast.

Paul:  When people haven't healed, their soul does not want them jumping into other dimensions because the healing has to happen where you're at. The things that I remember most are the things that I was passionate about because I was doing it because it was genuinely an interest of mine so that when I die and have to come face to face with myself, I can feel good about the life I've lived and know that I didn't just try to prove things to people. I really tried to leave the garden a little better than how I found it.

Ben:  Health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show.

Check, check, one, two, three. Leave that in there because it's kind of a pun check. I'm interviewing my friend, Paul Chek, today on the show. Paul has been a multiple-time podcast guest on my show. I visited him at his new house in San Diego, which is sick. He has a really cool setup there, super clean energy. Paul is absolutely brilliant, one of the most well-read and eccentric/intelligent guys that I have ever spoken to. He's an OG in the fitness industry. His book “Eat, Move and Be Healthy!” was actually one of the first fitness and health books I ever read in my life I think when I was 15 or 16 years old.

Anyways though, Paul and I talk about why his home environment is so clean, this thing called BioGeometry. We talk about plant medicine, parenting, stacking rocks, stages of human consciousness, a lot more. The shownotes for everything we talk about are at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/benandpaul. That's BenGreenfieldFitness.com/benandpaul. And in addition to that, all the previous episodes that I've done with Paul, and he's done with me, I will also link to at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/benandpaul. And you may really be interested in this healing herb course that he has because we smoked tobacco during the whole episode, and we had some pretty interesting blends we were smoking, and he teaches you how to smoke all those in the healing herb course that he has online. So, I'll link to that, too.

Anyways, speaking of healing, I don't know if I can even say healing. I don't know if the FDA will let me say that, but I'm going to say healing. Speaking of healing, Kion, my company Kion, has created an immune health supplement that's affordable, safe for long-term use, and totally science-backed. It's vitamin C and zinc. And that might sound super simple, but the vitamin C facilitates the production of immune cells and helps those cells function more effectively by protecting them from harmful molecules and oxidative stress. And then, zinc, and we use a really special form of zinc called a bisglycinate form that doesn't upset the stomach like most zinc does when taken in adequate dosages. Our zinc is just basically an essential mineral, plays a central role in immune cell formation. And a deficiency in zinc has been shown to severely impair immune function. So, you can get this new Kion Immune that we just formulated at a 20% discount if you go to getkion.com/bengreenfield. Our brand new rebranded bottles are shipped in totally recyclable packaging. Everything is super slick. You got to check out the new packaging. That in and of itself is the reason enough to grab yourself a bottle of immune. So, check it out, getkion.com/bengreenfield, if you want to see the new branding, or get a bottle for yourself. You save 20% off the Kion Immune, getkion.com/bengreenfield.

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Alright, let's go talk to Paul. Remember, shownotes are at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/benandpaul.

I think you enjoy a good smoke anytime.

Paul:  Yeah.

Ben:  Yeah.

Paul:  A fly just came in the room. I need to smoke.

Ben:  Right. Exactly.

Paul:  Ah, welcome to the rainbow, buddy.

Ben:  My heart beats. Give me a smoke. The rainbow is gorgeous. Your last house, the heaven house, was amazing.

Paul:  Thank you.

Ben:  But the energy here, as we've been talking about, with the BioGeometry setup that you have, which I'm actually very interested. I'm infatuated with this concept compared to painting every wall in your house with faraday paint and hanging cages around the bed. I think there's something to the BioGeometry concept and everything from the–you would probably do a better job explaining it than I am for the listeners, but this house, you call it the Rainbow House?

Paul:  Yeah.

Ben:  Yeah. The BioGeometry, when did you add that component to it?

Paul:  We had it when we moved in, because we had it at our vista house, so we brought it with us. I would imagine we've had it for maybe a year because our vista house, there's 5G there. So, I really felt we needed it there because I hated the 5G, and there's no 5G here. So, thank God for that. My first experience was I was actually doing a healing ceremony with a buddy of mine who's–he had already done the first level of BioGeometry training, and he's my longest-running client, Jason Pickard, and we were doing a healing ceremony. He wanted to trick me and see if I would notice anything. So, we were getting ready to do a ceremony out by the waterfall. He had put it down on the ground, and I walked out the door carrying a basket full of blankets and stuff. And the instant I walked out the door, I felt just like I was in the cave I was telling you about. And I looked right at him, I said, “What'd you do out here, man, because the energy is wickedly calm and centering right now?” And he smiled at me and laughed, and pointed to the ground, and the cube was on the ground. I said, “That's happening because of that little cube?”

Ben:  The small, tiny glass. I believe it's glass, the BioGeometry cube that's in your office beside us.

Paul:  Yeah. I don't know if it's made of glass. It might be made of a high-end Plexiglas, but it's–I don't know how many, but I think there's potentially even 100 different BioGeometry signatures that are lasered inside of it. So, as the energy moves through, it is affected by the laser signatures.

Ben:  The cube itself though is not the only component. Like I noticed that you have special tape under some of the other geometric shapes that were already in your office, and then there's stakes outside.

Paul:  Yeah. There's a number of things. There's attachments for power outlets like your fuse box, and for the inlet for the water mains to the house so that the water coming in is getting BioGeometry, put right into the water right through the pipe. The whole house has been done with what's called object rotation. So, you can actually rotate any object until it produces BG3 by just basically like tuning a radio dial.

Ben:  What's BG3?

Paul:  BG3 is centering energy. So, it's the same energy that is produced by all the healing sites around the world and where all the healing waters are, all the famous sites. Dr. Karim went and measured them with his very advanced systems.

Ben:  Like the lords in France [00:08:22] _____ waters.

Paul:  Everywhere, yeah. He went everywhere and found that they all produce this centering energy. The best way to describe BG3 is the eye of a storm. Everything around it's moving, but in the eye, there's dead stillness. So, the reason that you're feeling what you're feeling is because that cube takes any frequency bouncing through the air and converts it to that centering energy. So, no matter who walks in the room, if you're too sympathetic or catabolic, it shifts your body and moves it back toward neutral between parasympathetic and sympathetic. So, it actually has a balancing effect. If someone's too yin or like hypothyroid, it'll stimulate them.

Ben:  That's interesting. That reminds me of Dr. Nick Gonzalez. I don't know if you've looked into him.

Paul:  Yes.

Ben:  He has an interesting book called “The Gonzalez Protocol,” and is primarily focused around his use of almost like high-dose systemic enzymes to dissolve cancer tumors, and he had a really interesting process of using different forms of enzymes.

Paul:  He was one of the original metabolic typing guys, right? I'm talking about it.

Ben:  Yeah. He also worked with some other physicians related to the metabolic typing to identify several different levels of sympathetic versus parasympathetic dominance and found–and this is the whole idea behind the metabolic typing diet, the fact that, for example, people who are parasympathetically dominant tend to need more sympathetic stimulus to become balanced. So, they do better with the slightly higher meat and fat intake. Whereas people who are sympathetically dominant need to be brought down a little bit near the energy.

Paul:  I'm trained in metabolic typing. You must not know that.

Ben:  Okay. I didn't know that, so I'm explaining it to the master.

Paul:  And it used to be taught at my institute to all my students.

Ben:  But for the audience, it might be interesting though. The parasympathetic folks do better on the meat and the fats, and the sympathetic folks, better on the vegetables, and then the fresh fruits. And then there's some in between–

Paul:  There's some weirdos that have the opposite reactions.

Ben:  Yeah.

Paul:  See, what they did to determine this originally was they did venous blood draws and they measured the pH of the blood through a venous blood draw. And they found, for example, that some people can drink orange juice, and then they will go acidic, and others will go alkaline, even though it's the same orange juice. So, that was one example. In some cases, people are very stimulated by fats, and others are very shut down. It has not only a calming effect, but for example, I'm very sensitive to any–it's like if I drink orange juice, I go up like a rocket ship. And about 20 minutes later, I feel like I'm going to go into a comatose sleep, like I'm going really low blood sugar, my body reacts that way. So, some people, when they eat fat, go real up like sugar does to me. But fat tends to pick me up, but other people, it takes them down. So, that's just a quick example of what they found in the original research that led to the awareness that metabolic typing is actually very important.

Ben:  Yeah. And I'm not married myopically to any specific form of testing to determine what diet is right for one, but it would be fascinating someday to see something like–for example, we have the Day Two research data out of Israel that shows that your blood sugar response and your energy after a meal is based on your microbiome. Your microbiome will affect the glycemic variability that occurs in response to a cookie, or a banana, or almonds, or whatever you might be eating. And then, we know from the studies of genetic data that some people who are overmethylators might not do so well with high levels of methionine from meat. Whereas undermethylators might need more methionine. But nobody's ever taken the concept of your genetics, your microbiome, your sympathetic versus your parasympathetic dominance, and cracked the code on how all of those probably feed in to a certain extent, right?

Paul:  Well, I can tell you how to do that.

Ben:  It's not just nervous system, it's not just bacteria, it's not just genetics.

Paul:  I can tell you how to do that.

Ben:  Yeah. Magic.

Paul:  Pay attention to what you eat and your body will tell you exactly what's going on with all of those things you just mentioned.

Ben:  We recorded a whole–as a matter of fact, for those of you listening in, I'll have shownotes at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/paulandben. Paul and Ben, I believe, is where I'll–or actually, it's Ben and Paul, BenGreenFitness.com/benandpaul. I'll link to all the other podcasts that I've done with you, Paul, but we did a whole episode on intuitive eating.

Paul:  Right.

Ben:  And back to this BioGeometry concept because we were talking about the balancing of the sympathetic and the parasympathetic nervous system, when one walks into a room in which this cube is placed, which the enriched room is tuned, so to speak, biogeometrically. I know that you have two, three-plus hour podcasts in which you unpack a lot of this with the founders from Egypt to [00:13:13] _____.

Paul:  Very thoroughly. And there's a lot of really, really interesting information about how energy moves through space, how space is affected by BioGeometry symbols. They wouldn't really refer to them specifically as symbols. They're more like symbols, but what we talk about a lot is how shape affects space and how energy flows through space. So, one of the examples I give on the BioGeometry podcast, to help the layman understand, is what's the difference between a clarinet, a trumpet, and a trombone. They all have wind moving through them, but the shape of the instrument changes the sound of the instrument, which means it's changing the frequency, which means it's changing the type of energy it's producing.

And if you put your thumb over the end of a hose, you can change how water flows through it. So, now, just imagine ether or space, and any shape changes the flow of energy that's naturally in space. And as you probably well know, Richard Feynman showed there's enough energy in empty space to boil–in one square centimeter of empty space, there's enough energy to boil all the oceans on this planet instantly. So, when people think, “Oh, how can a shape like that change anything in space?” Well, space is absolutely freaking teeming with energy. It's bursting with massive amounts of energy.

Ben:  Yeah.

Paul:  So, the BioGeometry technology works because Ibrahim spent 50 years–

Ben:  Dr. Ibrahim from Egypt who developed this?

Paul:  Yeah. Ibrahim Karim spent a good 50 years, and he's an architect, and he's a scientist, and he's also deeply metaphysically tapped in. He's highly tapped in spiritually. You listen to my podcast with him and that'll become obvious in no time. And what he describes interestingly, Ben, which I think you'd find fascinating, he very much parallels some of Rudolf Steiner's teachings even though he's coming at it from a completely different approach. And also, Itzhak Bentov's teachings, Bentov taught that every object, no matter what it is, from a stone to a pen, to a cup, to a can, has a diva, which is the over–

Ben:  A diva.

Paul:  A diva, which is the overarching consciousness or spirit that comes within the shape or the object.

Ben:  Specifically within the shape, not like the energetic frequency of the atoms that are making up the actual shape itself?

Paul:  That, too, but I'll explain. So, really, think of this. Matter is spirit moving slowly enough for you to interact with it. Something is a causal force that's holding those atoms together. We can call it consciousness, but in spiritual circles, that's called spirit because it's moving, right? The table's moving, as you know, just under the speed of light.

Ben:  This solid glass table that we are sitting at?

Paul:  Yeah. The atoms, if you look at the atoms, it's a cloud of energy moving.

Ben:  Right. They're just tightly packed together enough for us to feel solid.

Paul:  Well, what happens is because of the polarity of them, they create a force field. Just like the analogy I give my students is, look, if you have a propeller on an airplane and it's just starting, you can stick your arm between the blade as it's just turning over. But once that thing's moving at 50,000 RPM–

Ben:  Careful with that at home, kids.

Paul:  It's a wall.

Ben:  Yeah.

Paul:  Right. Well, you got atoms with electrons spinning around it just under the speed of light. And because they have a field of energy around them, you can't penetrate them because you have all these miniature metaphorical airplane propellers moving at a wickedly high speed, but we don't have the sensory perception, unless you're clairvoyant like I am. I can look into the table and see it looks like a sea of buzz through my third eye. That's how I read people's energy.

Ben:  Is that how you see all the time, or do you put yourself into a certain state [00:16:50] _____?

Paul:  No, I have to shift.

Ben:  You have to shift states?

Paul:  Yeah.

Ben:  So, right now, as we're sitting here, you're not seeing this table moving?

Paul:  No. I actually have to change to what's classically called second site metaphysically. First site is what I'm using for you right now, but I consciously just ask my third eye to open. And when I do that, then I can see the astral dimensions, and then I can use it just like a telescope or a microscope. So, if I want to focus in, I can just keep thinking finer, finer, finer, and it tunes all the way down to the atom where I can just see a tiny little object buzzing like a cloud, or I can bring it up 'til I can see a whole universe, like a whole dimension in the astral plane.

Ben:  Do you think every human being is capable of that, or do you think you're special?

Paul:  No. Everyone can do it, but they just have to–the problem is that first, if you don't believe in it, you're screwed. Second of all, the more unresolved mental-emotional trauma or baggage you carry, the more of a wall you have in your own psychic filtration system. So, think of someone who's been mentally or emotionally abused, they have areas where their energy is very congealed because they're actually walling the pain of the trauma off in that part of their body. So, the more that they have, the more their energy gets stuck there, and the more grounded they are because their frequency range gets narrower and narrower. You understand that concept?

Like if a lion's coming after you, you narrow your frequency range to that lion, or you're going to die. You don't say, “Let me see his aura,” or you're getting eaten. So, when people haven't healed adequately, their soul does not want them jumping into other dimensions because the healing has to happen where you're at, and the body carries a memory of all that trauma, and it actually lives in the body. There's an old saying, “Feelings buried alive never die.” And because energy shapes form, form always follows function, but form also follows energy. So, if a person's got a lot of pain, trauma, trapped emotion, resent, guilt, shame, judgment, that thought field actually changes the structure of how the atoms and how the biochemistry of the body moves.

A simple example is in my years, 37 years of being a therapist, pretty much 95% to 98% of all the women I've worked with with breast cancer had the issue of being overloving people, who sacrifice their own needs for other people to the point they begin to silently resent the people they love because they didn't know how to say no to them. So, what happens is they start having so much blockage of their own emotion in their heart field because the cost of loving everybody else at their own expense leads to first unconscious resent of the people you love, but then it becomes stronger and stronger, so they hold this field of resistance around their heart. It's almost like a turtle that doesn't want to come out of its shell anymore. And so, that disrupts the energy field. In the aura, it's easy to see, I can spot it in a second, and that disturbs the consciousness flowing through the cells that is the organizing principle behind your physiology that makes a healthy person healthy and a psychologically ill person physically ill.

Ben:  When you spot it, what does it look like to you?

Paul:  In that case, it often looks like–imagine if I saw a painting of your wife, let's say, and I looked at it through my third eye. I would see black areas, almost like someone painted her with coal where the energy is stuck, or it can be dark, muddy reds. Basically, what happens is there's many ways it shows up. But compared to the homogeneity and the flow of the rest of their energy field, there's a disturbance there, which would be like if you had a creek and you threw a big boulder in it, how the water would back up against the boulder and start little rapids and go around it. So, wherever there's these holding patterns, the energy cannot move properly through there because it's holding the shape of the pain and the trauma.

So, if you could imagine that that is expressed symbolically, right, however you might imagine that, then that basically takes the energy, and it entangles it there. And because the judgment or the belief is the guiding force that's creating that pattern, it takes the energy and brings it to that frequency. So, for oftentimes these pains, traumas, and fears are operating at a frequency below the frequency range of a healthy organ gland or cell. So, the cells there start to get walled off and they don't feel like they're part of a community, and that's exactly what cancer is. It's cells that do not behave as though they're part of a community.

Ben:  Right, right. So, in a case of using BioGeometry, what's happening is that when someone walks into an environment, the frequency, the energetics in the room are allowing them to maintain a proper nervous system balance. And what I know people are going to ask, and so I'll cut straight to the chase here, is how do they actually have BioGeometry set up in their home? Is typically someone coming to their place and doing an analysis of the home?

Paul:  If you want to go that level, you can. But if you just buy the home kit and follow the instructions, for example, you shouldn't place it closer than about 10 centimeters to any object because it'll disrupt its broadcast. It's sending waves out in every direction. So, if you put it too close to the cup, you have that same effect I just said about a rock in the water. It'll disturb the balance of it.

Ben:  So, you can go to their website if you were to just google…

Paul:  Biogeometry.com.

Ben:  …biogeometry.com. Okay.

Paul:  So, the home kit comes with the instructions. It tells you the ideal placement. It comes with a charging plate. You have to charge it and clear it every day so it clears all the discord and energy that's collected because it picks up any discord and energy out of the environment.

Ben:  How do you clear it?

Paul:  You put it on the charging tray.

Ben:  Okay.

Paul:  There's a special tray that's got a circuit or radio–

Ben:  So, every day, you take the shape out, you clear it, then you put it back where it was originally?

Paul:  Yes. Yeah. Usually, about 3 minutes, 3 to 20 minutes, we'll clear it and charge it. And you can also clear any objects such as the glasses you wear on your head, vitamins, medicines–

Ben:  Theoretically, if you forgot to charge it, would it then start to accumulate a lot of the more negative disruptive frequencies and then almost create its own issues?

Paul:  It's like a pipe that gets too much water mineral deposits, how it starts to close in, right, or like an artery with arterial sclerosis. So, those discordant energies that it's collecting start clogging it up. And I can tell I can feel it because what happens is the frequency in the room starts to shift down, down, down, like light, if you took the aperture of a camera and made it narrower, and narrower, and narrower until there's less and less light. So, I'm using an analogy, but the openness that you feel in there starts to close down. So, it's almost like there's just the broadcast power goes down. But back to the diva, you see what Dr. Karim described very beautifully is he says that wherever there's frequency, there's always a center point. So, if you take a straight line, like we call somebody who's flat line dead, right, so that represents zero. So, whenever there's a sine wave of any type right at the neutral point where it's not positive and not negative right on the line, which is where the wave originates and returns to, right?

Ben:  Right.

Paul:  So, if this was an electrical circuit and you pulled the plug, you'd have nothing but that zero-point line.

Ben:  Right. So, you've drawn on this notepad a sinusoidal wave, just the typical wave above the line, the wave below the line where those two mate waves meet. You called that point what?

Paul:  That's the zero-point.

Ben:  The zero-point. Okay.

Paul:  And so, right there is where the centering energy emerges, and that's where in Ibrahim Karim's word, he calls that the divon energy. And so, what he says–

Ben:  D-I-V-O-N?

Paul:  D-I-V-O-N, which means like diva, but it's basically divine because if God is any frequency, it's unconditional love, which is zero. And so, what he describes is that that divon energy, which is the healing and balancing energy that holds the whole universe together, is in that center point, right there. So, the BG3 system is broadcasting the kind of energy that's moving through that center point. And because it's in the center point, if you walk into the room and you're all clogged up with chaotic energy, then it's going to pump that energy back into you from that point because it's broadcasting it out like that. So, whatever those waves are, they're getting pulled right into the center, and then it broadcasts that out.

So, imagine this is a fountain, and in the middle, you have your fountain shooting up. So, it's catching these waves, pulling it into the cube, and then just like the fountain shoots up, it's putting BG3 back into the environment, which is centering energy. So, no matter what your physiological imbalance is, when you walk into the space where the cube is, it's pushing your whole system to center. So, if you're–

Ben:  It's like a giant vacuum cleaner for negative frequencies?

Paul:  Yeah, or excessively positive frequencies.

Ben:  Oh, good point. Yeah.

Paul:  It balances. That's what the beauty of it is.

Ben:  Well, I can tell you, as soon as I walked into your office, particularly, I felt just calm as a cucumber.

Paul:  Yeah. Well, like I said, the office is built into stone, which is calming. And then, I have terracotta floor, which is highly paramagnetic, and your body's largely diamagnetic. Oxygen is the most paramagnetic substance ever evaluated. The rating scale goes to 10,000. Oxygen is at 10,000. That terracotta clay is probably around, I would guess, 4 or 600, maybe even a little higher. When farmers know how to balance the minerals in their soil, they want their soils between 3 and 600 to grow optimal crops. Philip Callahan measured the energy, paramagnetic energy, at healing sites all over the world and found most of them were around 1600.

Ben:  Sixteen hundred what? Are we talking about the–

Paul:  Paramagnetic.

Ben:  Is that like a hertz?

Paul:  No, 1600 is just a subjective rating scale, like how's your pain, 0 to 10.

Ben:  Okay. Gotcha.

Paul:  But because–

Ben:  So, there's no units?

Paul:  No.

Ben:  Okay.

Paul:  He was the first one to identify what paramagnetic energy is and how it's created from the sun. You can look at his book titled–I think it's called “Paramagnetic Energy,” or, “Paramagnetic Stone.” It's got paramagnetic in the title. But when you measure the paramagnetic energy of oxygen, which means the affinity to the south pole of a magnet, diamagnetic energies have an affinity to the north pole of a magnet. So, Philip Callahan was the first scientist to actually show that during solar flares, something happened that was never believed possible before, and that is that the sun has such powerful discharge it creates monopole photons, which would be–most people would never believe that was possible because that would be like saying you can make a magnet that's only north pole. But he showed that the sun's got enough energy to actually, I wouldn't call it split the photon, but change the structure of the photon. So, some of them are paramagnetic and they are drawn towards the south pole of a magnet, and the diamagnetic energies are drawn toward the north pole of a magnet.

There's other definitions for paramagnetic energy, but the key point is is that when you take a full breath of oxygen, oxygen is highly charged with paramagnetic energy, and your body is full of water. So, you take paramagnetic energy and oxygen, and connect it to an iron molecule of heme, and you now have a packet of charge differential floating around in a stream of water. So, an electric–

Ben:  AKA blood.

Paul:  Yes. An electric motor only works because you're alternating between a positive and a negative polarity, which makes the rotor spin. So, when you breathe oxygen, this is why breathing exercises energize you so much, you're saturating your blood with oxygen, which creates a huge polarity differential between the tissues and the water of your body, which are diamagnetic. So, the more you oxygenate, the higher your positive energy potential goes relative to the negative, which means you have a greater work potential.

Ben:  Right. The more you oxygenate, or the more you carbon dioxygenate, meaning that if you are–based on the type of thing that a guy like Patrick McKeown writes in his book “The Oxygen Advantage.” If you are not overbreathing, if you're not blowing off excess carbon dioxide, retention of certain amounts of carbon dioxide, which is why some people make a mistake of hearing that you should do deep diaphragmatic breathing all day long when in fact, your breathing should be somewhat shallow, still from the belly but somewhat shallow, that carbon dioxide in the bloodstream shifts that oxygen dissociation curve and you wind up oxygenating the tissue even more.

Paul:  You shouldn't even have to think about your–your tissues are regulating that constantly. But if you're doing breathing exercises and you're outgassing too much oxygen, it'll push you more and more sympathetic. So, a lot of people don't realize that the reason they start going unconscious with piston breathing and stuff is because they're outgassing so much carbon dioxide that they're not stimulating the parasympathetic system, so it can push the system right up until it basically collapses. I've seen people just go out cold.

Ben:  It's interesting. I've interviewed a couple of times an immersive journalist named James Nestor about his book “Breath.” It was the last podcast that I did with him. And he even talks about a device called a Carbogen, a carbon dioxide inhalation device that can be used to manage anxiety because you're actually replacing carbon dioxide back into the body and shifting the nervous system…

Paul:  I can tell you a real cheap way to do that.

Ben:  …back in order.

Paul:  It's called a paper bag.

Ben:  Breathe through your nose. Yeah, or a paper bag.

Paul:  Paper bag.

Ben:  Yeah.

Paul:  That's all you got to do. Just re-breathe your own carbon dioxide, and your carbon dioxide level goes up, and your parasympathetic system starts to turn on, and your sympathetic goes down, and you balance yourself out.

Ben:  But if people start marketing nervous system enhancing paper bags on Amazon, it will be because of–

Paul:  It's most likely next, you know, how it works.

Ben:  Yeah. That's the next biohack.

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Paul:  The thing I was trying to describe for you is just that oxygen has this really high paramagnetic charge without which we have no energy potential because without oxygen, our body is negative in charge. So, breathing is what brings the oxygen which has the positive potential, which creates the work potential that your cells use to function. Now, of course, you get energy from food, but you have to have oxygen to oxidize food as well. So, you have to have it for your metabolism. But the point is there's a polarity differential. Centering energy, basically, the BG3 energy is between, if you call that sympathetic positive, parasympathetic negative, it's where it emerges from and returns to. So, that's the centering energy quality. Now, naturally, you could stand in the eye of a tornado and it wouldn't kill you, but it would just feel extremely still. Well, I've seen pictures of tornadoes that are so powerful that it takes straw, like bales of straw, from a farm and puts it right through an oak tree.

Ben:  Are you kidding me?

Paul:  No. I've seen pictures. I've got them right in my library.

Ben:  Holy cow.

Paul:  The energy in those tornadoes is so strong. It'll actually drive straw right through an oak tree, and you can see it completely embedded–

Ben:  You mean like the individual–

Paul:  Tubes.

Ben:  What we call the tubes of straw, they're right there embedded in the trunk of the tree.

Paul:  They're embedded, like someone shot them in with such force that it actually can go right through oak.

Ben:  That's crazy.

Paul:  So, my point is–

Ben:  Which is one of the harder woods.

Paul:  Yeah. And so, the point being is is that there's that much energy circling around you, but in the eye of that storm, it's dead still. That's what the BG3 energy is. It's that centering energy. So, for most people today, they're wound, and stressed, and underslept, and rushed. So, when you come into that field as you feel, it has a very calming effect, which the first time I felt it, immediately took me back to being inside of caves and having that same sense of deep calmness that is in a cave largely because of the granite and the effects of the rock, which often have high paramagnetic content, because there's a lot of rocks. For example, basalt, granite. There's many rocks that have paramagnetic minerals. And Philip Callahan found, for example, he traveled the world and measured how much paramagnetic energy was in the soil. And I've actually got his paramagnetic testing machine, so I can test anything.

Ben:  And this was the same gentleman who identified that about 300 to 600 for a paramagnetic value is perfect for optimal soil?

Paul:  Yeah. So, because throughout history, there's always been lots of writing about the richness of the soil of the Nile in Egypt such as biblical texts and things like that. So, Philip Callahan actually tested–he found on commercial farms, it was between 0 and 100 at best, mostly closer to 0 because the soils were so depleted. But when he went to the Nile, on average, he found the paramagnetic reading was 600, which would be quite high. And then, to get past that in the environment you've got to go to places where there's like Stonehenge, or Gobekli Tepe, or pyramids. And actually, in one of his books, he shows he can take a pair of–

Ben:  One of Philip Callahan's books?

Paul:  Yeah. He actually shows himself inside of a pyramid causing an object he brought in to levitate that was made of paramagnetic materials. Because north against north, or south against south repels, he did it to demonstrate that whoever built the pyramids had such a deep knowledge of these stones. They knew that they were highly paramagnetic, and he shows him taking an object that's made of paramagnetic substance, and it hovers over the stone because the repulsion of the paramagnetic against paramagnetic is south on south.

Ben:  Do you think the pyramids and the shape of those pyramids were conceived through–because there's many philosophies, sacred intelligence of plants, alien race, or fallen angels like the Nephilim as “The Book of Enoch” talks about.

Paul:  Yeah.

Ben:  I'm convinced that there's something outside of whatever human consciousness existed when those were built, when the 40,000 plus pyramids you can find all over the world–

Paul:  We couldn't even build a pyramid today.

Ben:  I was just curious if you've struck a cross in your massive library here a philosophy that you think is sound–

Paul:  Right. The one that I trust the most is “The Law of One” series by Ra, which is actually the entity that created the pyramids. They say they are. They're the ones that develop the tarot. They get very comprehensive explanations, and I actually use their system to train myself in tarot. It took me a year and a half to follow the system, which is what they use to train the Egyptian priests exactly. And they describe in “The Law of One” series that the pyramids were not built like we think they were built. They are thought forms, and that the entity Ra, which is now long–they no longer need their bodies, their six-dimensional entities.

But thousands of years ago, they were actually here in physical form, but they actually created the pyramids. They described how they did it. They held the image of the architecture, but they have the ability to put so much energy into the thought-form. It just attracts material to its body. And they said that they left little clues to suggest that somebody had built them because they knew humanity would not be capable of understanding how something that big and that technical could have been built through thought. But they described exactly that they are thought-forms with such energy pumped into them that they materialize, literally materialize. So, they weren't built piece by piece like we think they are. They said that they made them look like that so human beings would be able to somehow try to rationalize the thing in their head, otherwise, they would have been forever completely and utterly confused even to this day.

Ben:  Have you ever visited the pyramids?

Paul:  No.

Ben:  Particularly the ones in Gaza?

Paul:  I have been to pyramids in Mexico, but not in Egypt.

Ben:  Yeah. I spoke in Cairo a few months ago. I guess now it was over a year ago, and was with my boys. I brought my boys out because I was speaking in Cairo and then Dubai. And so, I wanted to expose them to the Middle East. And because they're unschooled, everything we do is just life-based experiences for education. And so, they got them a few of the–

Paul:  Good. It means they're highly educated.

Ben:  Yeah, exactly. Not de-educated. A lot of the Lego buildings and architectural models of some of the constructions in Dubai, as well as the pyramids, and we studied Middle Eastern cuisine, and language, and art. Then I took them there and we arranged a van to pick us up from the hotel and take us out to the pyramids. And I got to tell you, it's been absolutely bastardized. It's a giant tourist trap, people selling you trinkets all the way in.

Paul:  Yeah. Same in Mexico.

Ben:  Signs and tour guides, and tourists with cameras, and practically everything but the Mickey Mouse hats. I didn't like the energy there at all. I could see how at one time it would have been a very sacred place, but like many things, it's been turned into almost like–it reminded me of when Jesus in the Bible cleanses the temple because it's just full of money changers, merchants of people selling overpriced doves to poor people. And it was the same feeling, something that was sacred having been bastardized by commerce.

Paul:  There's a phenomenal series on Gaia, which I'm absolutely addicted to called “Ancient Civilizations,” and they interview the top experts on everything to do with Stonehenge healing sites, pyramids, portals. And it's really deep and they quote a lot of excellent science people like Gregg Braden and many others. And it's absolutely not only mind-blowing, but there's a–one of the episodes is on Ra, which is who “The Law of One” books is by. But they actually get into the whole science of what Ra was, how that came to be, but they have amazing demonstrations of how they built these huge spires. And of course, you know my water charger and I've been doing this for a long time.

Ben:  We have a whole podcast about your water charging stations.

Paul:  Right. And so, what was amazing is they showed that inside these giant spires, which they built, and these things are like 100 feet tall, big stone pillars like 100-ton pillars, all carved interestingly with very unique and intricate hieroglyphic type symbols, which is just what BioGeometry does because they use these signatures to change the flow of the energy. So, imagine this thing's like 100 feet tall and it's like the size of a tree with a 5-foot base on it, and they built them on metal plates in giant swimming pools. So, what do you got there? And then, they open these things up and they're loaded with very high-end crystals.

The thing the whole tower is packed and each one has a different frequency, and they have different crystals to change the frequency, so the height and the shape changes the frequency, and they showed that the energy was caught by these towers. It would catch the sun's energy and the crystals determine which ray, which bandwidth of frequency of the sun's waves, and then it pumps it down into the swimming pool, and they hooked brass conductors to the metal plate. And they showed inside the pyramid, which is fairly recent, they've got these robots with cameras that went inside where people hadn't gone before. And they had literally like electrical circuitry in there, and they have holes perfectly drilled. Imagine a half-inch copper pipe like you'd plumb a bathroom sink with. They have this whole pyramid structure connected to these big spiral, the spires in the water with the crystals in them, and they showed that they were actually–

Ben:  Can you still see these to this day?

Paul:  Yeah, yeah.

Ben:  Where are they at again?

Paul:  They're in Egypt.

Ben:  No kidding.

Paul:  Yeah.

Ben:  Well, as you're describing that, like the very first thing that comes to my mind is I'm thinking of my father's water structuring production facility that I was telling you about, and the fact that each of the different cartridges used to filter the water is packed with crystals and stones that produce a varying range of frequencies. Typically, you're either pouring water into it, and spiralizing the water, and structuring it, or installing it as a home house filtration unit. Or as I described to you, I have these cartridges and I've been putting them in the pool and in the hot tub, and they're somehow structuring the water with those frequencies that are [00:44:42] _____ the waters crystal clear.

Paul:  Probably the minerals.

Ben:  Yeah.

Paul:  So, what they showed is that the sunlight and they found that they were tuned to what they classified as the long waves of sunlight, almost like radio waves, not short fast waves in the–what's the billions of cycles? Angstrom range.

Ben:  Right.

Paul:  Light is in the angstrom range, but they showed that they were catching these longer slower waves and they were custom tuning each of these pillars to a slightly different frequency range, and collecting that energy, and pumping it all through the pyramids. And it was somehow not only powering everything but powering–they believed it's–

Ben:  You think they were powering studies with this?

Paul:  They think they were powering the whole pyramids and they said that–

Ben:  So, that would have been how the pyramids, those massive structures, were built…

Paul:  Could be.

Ben:  …using energy harnessed from light.

Paul:  Well, they were built, like I said, as thought forms if you follow Ra's approach. Now, many people may not agree with that because a lot of people don't really have a concept for how you could materialize a thought-form. But without a long discussion on that, think of what we do. You want to build a tree fort, you have an idea in your head and you add matter to the image in your head, and so you materialize the thought-form. But if you look at people like Sai Baba that manifests stuff out of thin air from gold and watches to stones, to ashes, mana. And I mean, I've seen slow-motion videos and I've–actually, Angie studied with Sai Baba in person and–

Ben:  Who's Sai Baba?

Paul:  Sai Baba is a famous Hindu saint. He's dead now, fairly recent though. People from all over the world would come to him to get healings and he's wickedly powerful man. There's many videos if you just go on YouTube. Sai Baba manifesting objects, you'll see it.

Ben:  How do you spell Sai Baba, approximately?

Paul:  S-A-I B-A-B-A.

Ben:  Okay.

Paul:  Sai Baba.

Ben:  Wow.

Paul:  I've got some of his music. It's mind-blowingly good.

Ben:  Holy cow.

Paul:  It's beautiful, beautiful.

Ben:  Never heard of him.

Paul:  Yeah. Sai Baba, he's really powerful. He died not too long ago. But anyhow, I was talking about manifesting a thought form, and there is an example of a living human being, and there's been many, many others out there. Just most people don't know about him, but he could manifest out of thin air, and he did it regularly in front of thousands and thousands of people. It wasn't like he was doing this in a closet and pretending that he could do it. This guy could manifest like beautiful jewelry, and watches, and things that worked out of thin air.

Ben:  Using energetic frequencies and assembling atoms that were already existent in the environment around him into physical matter.

Paul:  What is matter? Spirit moving slowly enough you can interact with it. He is a spiritual master who can tap into the flow of what we would call the energy of consciousness, and energize it through his own being, and they would say he would get really hot when he would do it. His hands would get super-hot. But anyhow, a lot of people don't believe in that, but not only have I met people that have seen him do it such as my own wife, I was trained in the self-realization fellowship system, which is Yogananda's monks. Many of the monks that trained me watched Yogananda doing all sorts of stuff like this. So, they know damn well it's true, and these are not people that tell lies, I can tell you that right now. It's not even in their fiber to do that.

Ben:  Not to derail us too quickly from the conversation about BioGeometry, but people may have heard the crinkling in the background here as we're passing this bag around and be wondering what exactly is going on in the background as we're hissing and puffing here. So, I think the last time we recorded a podcast, you talked briefly about this idea of taking tobacco and blending it with a variety of different teas and oils for something like this, for example. This is based on a–this bag is from a volcano?

Paul:  Yeah.

Ben:  Vaporizer?

Paul:  Mm-hmm.

Ben:  And so, tell folks who maybe are not familiar with this concept what you're doing when you're taking this volcano and blending these different herbs and oils.

Paul:  First, I'll say if you want to learn about how to do it, how I do it, I have an online course through the CHEK Institute called “The Healing Herb,” which gives you the history of marijuana. We interview a couple of our marijuana experts on the biochemistry and all the different healing benefits, positive–

Ben:  What'd you call it? Because I'm going to link to it the shownotes, the healing–

Paul:  “The Healing Herb.”

Ben:  “The Healing Herb,” okay. So, if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/benandpaul, I'll link to that one. Yeah. Actually, I want to take this course now. Even in my book “Boundless,” I talked a little bit about my experience here with you and the different blends that you had made, and I still get comments on that section of people who want to know more. They don't just want the concept of taking a vaporizer bag like this and filling it with the essence of the tobacco and the oils, and you have a variety of loose leaf teas that you told me you do more smoking of the teas than drinking of them. But people want the actual recipes, they want the cookbook.

Paul:  Yeah.

Ben:  I told you, you should write a cookbook at some point.

Paul:  Well, we actually–Gavin Jennings, our CEO, has come out with his own line of smoke mixes for vaporizing. They're right on the CHEK store.

Ben:  Oh, really?

Paul:  Yeah.

Ben:  Amazing. Wow.

Paul:  I don't have the brand name on the top of my head, but you can't miss them. Just look for smoke. We have a few of my favorite smoke mixes right on the CHEK store. And Gavin's line, it's a Celtic motif. So, you'll notice the Celtic symbols on it, but they're very beautiful.

Ben:  Yeah. Well, I was telling you one thing I've been doing just because I've been–one of my friends gifted me a pipe, and I've been smoking organic tobacco with that. But then mullein grows on my land, which the large broad leaf of the mullein, kind of like this fuzzy leaf, you can put it in a dehydrator and dehydrate it, and grind it, and then blend it with the tobacco, and it's actually got a lot of lung healing properties and grounds the tobacco–

Paul:  It's a common ingredient in a lot of smoke vapor–well, these are–

Ben:  Yeah. It grows like weeds on my property.

Paul:  Grandfather's spirit is where I get most of my smoke mixes because they're certified organic. But mullein is a common one used in a lot of smoke mixes. And those are meant to be smoked in a pipe. I just happen to vaporize them.

Ben:  Tobacco leaf has culinary uses as well. It's interesting. There's some chefs that utilize molecular gastronomy and different ingredients, who will take the tobacco and boil it in water to extract some of the flavor, and then take some of the leaves and some of the water. And one popular recipe, and you can find a recipe for this, is ice cream, tobacco ice cream. And you have to be very careful because you can easily have a spoonful of ice cream and get 10 milligrams of nicotine. A very, very small amount of tobacco necessary for this. And then, I had a dinner guest at my house a couple of weeks ago and he does, with his tobacco, he makes a finely ground cacao paste out of it, and you just take a little tiny bit like on the end of a toothpick, just as almost like a pick-me-up.

Paul:  I make tobacco butter. I just take organic butter and fry some tobacco in it, and then sift the tobacco leaf fiber, like grind the tobacco up and then I sift the tobacco out of it so that I just have the butter and it's got all the nicotine. So, if I want a little pick-me-up or clear my head and I'm on the road, and I don't have any vaporizing stuff, I just take a little butter on the end of my finger and stick it on my tongue, and it absorbs right through, and you're rocking.

Ben:  Yeah. Interestingly, the one molecule that has interesting corollaries to nicotine is piperine from black pepper.

Paul:  Oh, interesting.

Ben:  And that's something that's now used as a smoking cessation treatment is black pepper essential oil, like black pepper extract. I was showing you that that flow pen that I keep in my fanny pack–and it's very simple, it's just a small wooden device that you have a cotton swab that you'll saturate with any essential oil you want, peppermint, or rosemary, or black pepper, whatever, and then you take a whiff on it and you're just breathing in the essential oil essence. But a lot of people use black pepper and wean themself off cigarettes just by whiffing black pepper essential oil.

Paul:  Yeah. I've vaporized a number of teas that have black pepper in them.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah.

Paul:  Yeah. You got to be a bit careful because it's a bit hot on the lungs if there's very much in it, but it is a nice experience.

Ben:  Yeah. Well, for the longest time, it was one of the few ways to actually enhance the bioavailability of turmeric, because turmeric isn't water-soluble, but when you blend it with piperine, it'll actually pass through the gastric wall and become more absorbed. If you want light to battle systemic inflammation, turmeric combined black pepper in the supplement industry was typically the go-to way to get your turmeric. The only other way to do it would be to blend it with fat, right, like a coconut oil or coconut milk, almost like a golden milk latte type of concept.

Paul:  [00:53:29] _____ pull it out.

Ben:  Well, there's a couple of things. A, if you're just using the turmeric to fight gut inflammation, you wouldn't blend it with the black pepper because you want it to stay–

Paul:  Right. You want to stay in the gut.

Ben:  …in your gastrointestinal tract. And now, people are nano-emulsifying turmeric and extracting the saccharides from turmeric. There are ways to get around that, that blending with black pepper now, so you don't have to do that as much anymore. But piperine is interesting as an alternative to nicotine for people who find it too stimulative or addicting.

Paul:  See, I used the Northern Shag tobacco, which is actually a tobacco from the Stokkebye company in Denmark because they don't spray it with chemicals–

Ben:  I bought some after you showed that to me last time.

Paul:  Yeah. I choose that because, one, it's a nice neutral flavor, it doesn't have a lot of flavor to it like a lot of tobaccos do. So, you can use it kind of like flour to make any kind of cake you want. If the flour was tasted like chocolate, then it would skew your ability to use it with other things. But also, the Northern Shag has the lowest amount of nicotine of all the tobaccos I've ever been able to find and analyze.

Ben:  Oh, no kidding.

Paul:  So, I'd choose it specifically because it has–when you're vaporizing, you're only getting, I estimate, about 30% of what would happen if you flamed it like a cigarette or a pipe, the cigarette burns at 800 Fahrenheit. The hottest my vaporizer will go is 459. And so, because it's an oil-based product, you can't really suck it out nearly as effectively as you can with a flame. So, I know because I smoke, I do like 20 bags a day probably, maybe 30, just because I enjoy it. And if I go off of it cold turkey to fly somewhere, whatever, I just feel tired for about probably three-quarters of a day. If I get a good sleep that night, the next day, it's like I never ever had any tobacco in my system at all. So, it's not hard to–

Ben:  That's good because nicotine, it's very dopaminergic, that whole concept of smoking a cigarette after you have sex, right? For people who are heavily addicted to cigarettes, there's actually a reason behind that because once you become dependent on a dopamine-releasing compound, anything in life that would normally produce the pleasurable sensation of a dopamine release needs to be enhanced with something to kick the dopamine up even more. And hence, you got to have your steak and then smoke some tobacco, have a cigar after your steak, have a cigarette after sex, or chew on nicotine, or whatever. And I have nothing against nicotine. I think it's a fantastic concept.

Paul:  The stigma of tobacco is based on commercial cigarettes, which have something like 400 carcinogenic chemicals. The average cigarette is 8% sugar. So, you're mainlining a drug that, as Candace Pert said, should be a Class 1 drug because it's as addictive as morphine and heroin. And because they're commercially raised with farming chemicals, it's extremely dangerous to smoke commercial tobacco. But I have a book in my library here written by a medical doctor. It's probably 250, 300 pages all on the medical benefits of tobacco. I've got another book on tobacco, “Shamanism,” which is shaman that used nothing but nicotiana rustica and various tobaccos to heal all sorts of ailments. So, it's like anything. If you use it intelligently, then it can enhance your life. But if you abuse it, then it controls you.

Ben:  If you use it intelligently, if you source it intelligently?

Paul:  Yeah.

Ben:  No, because cigarettes and a California cab are, in my opinion, equivalent when you look at the 70 plus pesticides and herbicides that are allowed in a big bold California red, and that you could turn right around and say organic tobacco and a nice organic biodynamic line are just fine. So, the delivery mechanism is pretty important.

Paul:  Yeah, yeah. I mean, you have to be intelligent across the board. That's why I vaporize.

Ben:  Yeah. Do you drink alcohol?

Paul:  My body doesn't like alcohol. Occasionally, I'll have a little bit. When I was 15, I got into a drinking contest with two buddies and I drank so much, I ended up–actually, we were going to a rock concert and I didn't even know–I was so drunk I didn't know what I was doing, but what–

Ben:  What were you drinking?

Paul:  We were drinking Southern Comfort, Drambuie, and Kahlua.

Ben:  The reason I ask is everybody has those–for many people, it's tequila in college, the one drink that still brings back nausea for them every time they're near it.

Paul:  Yeah. So, I ended up getting thrown in jail because I went up on the stage when the band was on break and started playing the instruments.

Ben:  Of course you did.

Paul:  And I don't have any memory of it. My friends told me all about it, but then I woke up in the drunk tank with a bunch of guys and vomit all over the floor.

Ben:  Can just see young Paul Chek drunk on stage, playing the band's instruments.

Paul:  Yeah.

Ben:  Now, we were talking about the possibility of writing a cookbook for the tobacco oil blends that you make, but you are writing a book right now, right?

Paul:  Yes, yeah.

Ben:  What is your book about?

Paul:  Well, my new book is about why are we here and why is the world always so fucking crazy. Look back through history, there's just been nothing but wars, and emperors, and people controlling people, and suppressing people, and waves of violence, and starving people all over the world even though Bill Gates could feed them all and make them all rich if he cared, as a metaphor. Why are relationships so challenging? Why do people who often seem to be very good people have real challenging lives, and why do people like criminals often seem to be living the high life and having all the fruits of the labor that they never did?

Honestly, it's really an explanation based on my own deep years and years of metaphysical research on consciousness and study mixing my spiritual practices with my meditation work as part of it, with remote viewing, with astral travel, with plant medicines, and with extensive study on everybody I can find that has anything intelligent to say about what consciousness is, which is quite a lot of study years and years and years and years of it, hundreds and hundreds of notebooks of it. And so, it's really what is consciousness, and why are we here? And what is spirituality? What is spiritual growth? How do you do it? And the book gives you a toolkit of practices that not only help you engage relationships more thoroughly like non-violent communication, for example, but help you understand the structure stages of consciousness so you can see how consciousness grows based on extensive research.

And so, you can identify hallmarks of where a person's at in a given structure stage of consciousness. Maybe the traditional stage, which is the stage that people are attracted to fundamentalist religion versus the integral stage, which is 2% of the world population based on current Ken Wilber's research, but the integral levels, the highest level of consciousness we have. But as we grow through consciousness, if we are healthy psychologically, we transcend each level, but we include it. So, if you go back in his various models but you start at the bottom, that's the archaic level. So, that would be all the way back to the beginning of the Earth when it was just populated with minerals. There was no life on it. Then you have the magic level, which is when biology emerges. Then you have the mythic level, which would be every tribe that's leaving paintings and carvings, and telling a story. That's the mythic level. And interestingly, in the magic level, they find art from that period of human development. And oftentimes, most rarely ever do you see a mouth drawn on any of the pictures of humans. They have no mouth.

Ben:  Why is that?

Paul:  Because at that level of conscious development, we lived in nature, and listening was much more important to survival than speaking. So, because we had to pay very close attention to sound, to hear things coming up behind us, for example, we hadn't really oriented ourselves to language yet. And as we learn sound, some theorists say that we actually learned what we call language by emulating animals such as chimpanzees and other animals, elephants. And so, we started learning their languages, which we eventually produced our own language from. It gets deeper than that though because there's archetypal influences and there's many philosophies and theories of language. But the point is at that level of the magic stage, we were still very fused into biology. For a common parlance, we did not have much of an ego. We function more like wolves in a pack than we did as individuals.

Then in the mythic period, you start seeing that they're drawing everybody with mouse and the art starts to reflect the consciousness. And Jean Gebser has written a lot about this. And then, he's got a great book called “Seeing Through the World” by Jeremy Thomas. It's all about the evolution of consciousness and the integral stage that we're all merging into right now. So, what I'm pointing out is that in my book, I show these models of the different structure stages of consciousness so that a person can recognize, “Okay. Now that I know where I'm at, I can see what opportunities there are for me to grow my awareness.”

So, for example, if you go past the traditional stage and Ken Wilber stage, you get to the modern stage. The modern stage emerges, for example, when somebody who's been a Christian all their life, all of a sudden, meet someone who's a Buddhist, hangs out with them, and realizes there's things about their philosophy that are more freeing and more nurturing than their own. And so, they get an interest in Buddhism. And the next thing you know, they're reading Buddhist books, and they're carrying the wisdom of the Buddha, and they're adding it to the wisdom of Jesus. And then all of a sudden, someone talks about Hinduism, and they hear about Shiva, or Krishna, or Indra, or any number of the Hindu deities, and they start reading about that, and they go, “Wow, Hinduism is amazing.” Or they find the Vedas or the Upanishad and they go, “Oh my god, this is so straight to the point, and so obvious, and so beautiful.”

So, now they've got some Christianity, they got a little Jesus in them, they got a little Buddha in them, they got a little Shankara in them, they got a little Shiva in them, they've got a little Shakti in them. And so, that's the modern stage where we start to realize that our own belief system is actually limiting us and that there's other people with ideas and ways of living that are more freeing. And so, they get naturally gravitated toward that. And the next thing you know, they grow into the postmodern stage, which is unique because at the postmodern stage of consciousness, people have grown to the point where they realize they have to look at both sides of every idea, or argument, or belief, or they can get trapped by not seeing the whole picture.

So, people in the postmodern stage takes something like COVID and say, “Okay. Well, I'm not just going to watch television. I'm going to start scanning the internet for experts with different opinions. I'm going to find out what a virus is and how it really works. And I'm not going to make a decision about whether I get a vaccine until I study what's in the vaccine, how it's made, who's making it, who's funding it, what type of mechanism it has, what the best doctors in the world for it and the best doctors in the world against it say.” And only when they've weighed the opinions on both sides will they ever make a choice.

Ben:  But that's not convenient if you want to fly Delta or go to your favorite restaurant?

Paul:  No, but it's also not convenient if you die.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah.

Paul:  Or your pain–

Ben:  Or just live a subpar lifestyle…

Paul:  Or you're sick.

Ben:  …based on adjuvants, which is a potential issue.

One thing that really came to mind for me as you were talking about these different patterns of the growth of human consciousness from the mythic to the magical and beyond, in the concept of no mouse being drawn, the idea of listening to nature, this is something that strikes home close to me right now because my boys, as I was telling you earlier, they're preparing for their rite of passage into adulthood now that they're almost 13 years old. And they're going through a course called [01:06:13] _____, which was put together for them by Tim Corcoran at Twin Eagles Wilderness School in Idaho. And it's an entire course built to connect a young man or young woman to nature, and from bird language to reading trees, to seeing signs of wildlife, to reading the sun and the stars, and the amount of listening.

I'm observing them what they need to do, because it's–they have all the other things that they're studying as well. So, it's not like their entire life is built around this course, but for about 20 to 30 minutes a day, they're immersed in this workbook primarily influenced by a lot of Native American trackers, and wildlife experts, and bird language experts. That's what Tim primarily studied under. But the extent to which they are simply listening and observing is dramatic. And I think when it comes especially to nature immersion, shutting your mouth and listening is one of the best ways to learn.

Paul:  So, I'm going to take what you just said and show you why I'm writing my book, one of the reasons. To be healthy psychologically and functionally in the world and achieve your potential as a human being, you have to transcended each level as you grow, but you must include it, or you're unhealthy. So, in Gebser's model, you have the archaic, the magic, the mythic, and the mental, then you go into integral. We're a culture that's heavily trapped in the mental. So, now, I'm going to say to you, Ben, what are you going to think if I show up to do a hunt with you and I surprise you by bringing a friend of mine who's a stockbroker, who's got no experience in the wilderness, and he comes out there and all he wants to do is talk all the time?

Ben:  I hope he can cook because he can be back at camp.

Paul:  Exactly.

Ben:  Yeah.

Paul:  So, what I'm showing you through this one simple analogy that fits exactly the way you live and know from personal experience, that if you do not have the ability to go back to the mythic level, then you do not have the ability to engage the mystery. So, you get trapped in scientific, materialistic explanations, which are extremely limited compared to what you can get from mystics, and quantum physicists, et cetera.

Ben:  Or biophilia, or just the sacred intelligence of plants.

Paul:  Exactly.

Ben:  Yeah, which is not rational, logical level.

Paul:  The sacred intelligence of plants comes from the mythic level of consciousness. So, see, I can feel the energy on a plant. I can feel what's going on in a person's body by standing next to them. That's the same skill a native would have used 25,000 years ago to survive and know which plants might kill it. That's how shaman knew how to make medicines. They talked to the plants. That's magic consciousness.

Ben:  They also listened to the plans.

Paul:  Well, you have to listen to talk, or you're not communicating. My point is, I talk to plants all the time and I teach it, and it's a deep listening skill. The talking is not verbal. It's more akin to telepathy. But I can have a tree write a book for me. I'll be the mediator. The point I'm making is is that if we get to the mental level where we're squarely at right now, but we lose touch with the archaic level, we don't understand the function of the Earth itself. If we don't understand the magic level, we're disconnected from biology and it becomes nothing but objects, not living beings that we can just do whatever we want with. And science justifies it, okay? If we miss the mythical level, then we don't realize the importance of worshipping the magic mystery in all of life and we lose our awareness that there are things about life that cannot be explained even with the most advanced science.

So, the natives had a sense of awe for the fact that no matter how much they knew, they knew there was a lot more they didn't know. And so, a myth is an attempt to explain the unexplainable based on the experience that the wisest people in the tribe such as Shaman could pass down to explain these things. So, if someone gets to the mental level without the mythical level, they fall into the trap of thinking they actually know what's going on, they actually know what God is or isn't, they actually know how a tree breeds or how various species reproduce because they've looked at it under a microscope, but they forget that matter cannot organize itself. So, they overlook the fact that what's moving through that is what they were worshipping in the mythic stage.

Ben:  Which is why I think the mythic level or that's a new term in our vernacular now as of the past 10 minutes, should be something that–I wasn't aware of this even though I've just been doing it intuitively to a certain extent, woven into the core educational curriculum of a young human being.

Paul:  Yes.

Ben:  You're a 59-year-old father of, what, a 2-year-old?

Paul:  A one-and-a-half-year-old, 5-year-old, and a 41-year-old.

Ben:  So, Zoe and Mana, your one-and-a-half-year-old daughter, and your four-year-old–five?

Paul:  He'll be five this month.

Ben:  Five-year-old son. How are you incorporating this into the way that you're raising your own children? How do you plan on educating your children?

Paul:  Just the way you're doing it.

Ben:  Well, so they'll stay at home, do you think?

Paul:  Absolutely, unless we can get him back to a Steiner school, but it's not looking good. Mana was in a Steiner school, and Steiner educates people exactly based on this [01:11:45] _____.

Ben:  I was going to ask you what a Steiner school is.

Paul:  Well, it's Waldorf school.

Ben:  Okay.

Paul:  And so, Steiner knew how the brain and the psyche grew and developed. So, he built the whole system so that it parallels what a child should learn in each stage of the development based on which brain hemisphere is functioning, how they integrate, and the stages of consciousness that child naturally emerges through in any social situation. So, the education is custom-tailored. For example, Steiner says you should not teach kids to read until they're at least 7 to 10 years old because it pushes them into their left brain, shuts down their right brain. And so, they memorize–

Ben:  And once again, we entered the logical rational before the mythic.

Paul:  Yes. And they can't see wholeness anymore. So, he, when kids are young, has them acting things out. They don't study by rote. They take stories like we would call myths or plays that have an educational undertone to them, and then they each are assigned to role, and they act that role out. And so, they learn from each other by the roles they play, what King George was doing, or what the dragon was doing.

Ben:  That's why make-believe is so powerful.

Paul:  Yes.

Ben:  I was homeschooled K through 12 and I would finish school by 11:00. And I remember that this is not peasy anymore, but I'd pretend I had a bow, and an arrow, and a spear, and a dog, and I would–from the time I was probably 9 years old up until I was 13, I would go outside and play Cowboys & Indians. And I would pretend I was just an Indian roaming the plains. I would shoot my bow at trees. I would literally, by myself, just be inside my own head with my dog sitting around the wilderness.

Paul:  Well, that brings up a key point. You were using your imagination. Now, it's multiple-choice questions. It's watching videos, it's memorizing [01:13:36] _____ books, and there's no room for imagination in there, right? We have this yes, no. But really, the mind can work yes, no, maybe, wrong question, or something completely different, right? So, when you learn to use all these stages of consciousness as an integrated whole, you have a deep sense of connection to the earth, and your intuition can guide you. When you have a deep sense of listening and an awareness that everything around you is alive, which would be classically called animism from a metaphysical perspective, then you realize that everything is animated by source or by spirit. Then when you get to the mythic level, you often see people realize that whatever God is is in everything and everything in existence is an expression of the divine. So, now you have polytheism.

Then when you get to the mental level, you start seeing people think monotheism. It's all one God, but then they forget that that one God also is the God of the people they don't like, and they start killing those people and claiming that they're religious. So, you see the mental level, if you don't maintain connection to the lower levels, you start to destroy the Earth, destroy your neighbors all in the name of God, or in the name of 5G, or in the name of a vaccination because you're not paying attention to how it impacts, nor are you using those other levels of consciousness to evaluate what the technology is and what its effects are. You're only looking at it from a numerical, mathematical, logical, materialistic perspective, which is why we're the smartest, sickest, dumbest people we've ever been. We're smart and dumb. We know how to get to the moon, but we don't know how to eat.

Ben:  What are you most excited about for Mana, or Zoe? Because there's lots of fearmongering, there's lots of talk about screens in 5G, and the horrible world that our children may grow up in that not a lot of positive talk about the things that we think that our children are capable of, or that we're actually excited about for them.

Paul:  Well, both of my children's souls, because I didn't want to be a father again, so it was quite shocking when Mana came and it shocked me again when Zoe came because I was really looking forward to winding down. I'll be 60 this year, so I've been around for a while. I've been in this business 37 years and worked very hard at it. So, I'm like ready to retire, and paint, and smoke pot all day and say, “[BLEEP] it.”

Ben:  We just got to have a different plan.

Paul:  Right. Yeah. That's why they say if you want to make God laugh, tell Him you got a plan. And so, my retirement plan became a parenting plan, but the joy, and the bliss, and the abundance in the heart-opening that came with Mana just blew my mind. I mean, it was as powerful as a psychedelic. Just blew my heart chakra wide open because I didn't want to have kids and Angie got pregnant two times, she had two miscarriages–and she didn't know she was pregnant. You see, so we were doing a lot of tobacco smoking, and long intense saunas, and stuff that was very bad to do, but she didn't know she was pregnant. So, after the second one, we said, “Okay. Something's going on.” And then, she got pregnant again, and that was we were monitoring her cycle. I'm like, “This soul is absolutely insistent on being my child.”

So, I set up a ceremony and went into ceremony and had my soul connect me to the soul of my child, whose name Mana was, in his last lifetime, was from Taiwanese name was Bahuani (ph) was a woman. What Bahuan (ph) means white flower. And interestingly, the day I did the ceremony with Angie, we had some profound experiences. Angie had just finished painting her yearly mandala when this happened. And she said to me while she's painting, “I don't know why I'm painting this tree.” And it's unlike anything she's ever painted, but she just said, “I have to paint this.” And she painted this beautiful tree like a willow with gorgeous white flowers and gold hues in the bark. And I did the ceremony like five days later. And when I met Mana's soul, I said, “What is your name?” And when she came to me–actually, my soul took me to her and she was sitting in a grass hut on a dirt floor in a rocking chair drinking tea.

And I said, “What is your name?” She said, “My name is Bahuan.” So, when I got out of the ceremony, I said, “Angie, use your computer and see if you can find a language translator. She said she's from Taiwan, so it must be a dialect of Chinese.” Well, Bahuan means white flower. So, I said, “Well, geez, let's see what the white flower looks like.” So, Angie types in white flower. That was day three of the annual White Flower Festival, which is their annual festival, it's the national flower of Taiwan, and it is exactly what Angie painted, the white flower tree. To the T, it's like she took a photocopy in her mind of the white flower tree and painted it.

Ben:  And this was before Mana was born?

Paul:  This was before Mana was born. And so, the point I'm driving at is I said to Bahuan, I said, “You know, I don't want to be a dad again. You are making it impossible for me to have that freedom.” She was about a 70-year-old looking little Asian woman sitting in a rocking chair and she smiled at me with this devilish little grin. She said, “I've been watching you.” She goes, “I sit here and drink tea and go into meditation each day.” And she says, “I've been watching you for years.” She says, “What you teach is the truth and it's needed.” She said, “There are some very big changes coming to the Earth,” and people like me are going to be needed. And then, she began giving me visions. She said, “I spent my whole life and many lifetimes as a farmer.” She said, “I can drink tea from anywhere in the world and within seconds tell you exactly what's missing in the soil and what needs to be done.”

She said, “I'm an expert at farming and growing plants and the world is going to go through significant changes, and there's going to be a big need for people with my knowledge.” She said, “I chose you, Angie, and Penny, because the three of you will activate my knowledge.” And she said, “And I want to learn to ski, and Penny is a ski instructor, and I want to fly in an airplane, and Penny is a pilot. And I want to learn from Angie because she's a shaman.” And so, she said, “I chose you guys to reactivate my knowledge because I'm coming to the Earth plane to help for what is coming.”

Ben:  Does Mana seem to express an interest in these same type of things?

Paul:  He loves to garden. Yes, and he's fit.

Ben:  That's fascinating.

Paul:  Yeah. Everything that she said he loves. Then the same thing happened with Zoe. And Zoe was another wild experience. So, I did another ceremony and had my soul connect me to her soul. Her soul came to me. I met her in the astral plane and she was a beautiful Jewish woman. She showed up looking like about 35 long, dark hair, real pretty. And her name was Anna in her last life. And I said to her, “Anna, why did you choose me as your father? Because I really didn't want to have kids anymore, and I got Mana, but another kid,” I'm like, “what's going on? You guys seem relentless. She smiled. She said, “Well, I used to be Mana's husband three lifetimes ago.” She said, “I died in the Holocaust. I was gassed to death and went to Hitler's chambers, but I had almost starved to death when he killed me.”

And she said, “While I was dying, while I was going through this long slow process of starving to death, I began to have a series of profound mystical experiences, and I met spiritual beings and came into contact with God. And I learned how to open up dimensional portals using symbols and keywords. And I'm coming to teach people that they are not trapped in their bodies because the Earth is about to go through a lot of changes. A lot of people are going to be very scared, and they're going to need people like me to teach them that they're not really stuck here.” And she said, “I will show you.”

And she began moving her arm in the open air and making sounds, and all of the sudden, a wormhole opened up and geometric symbols started floating out of it. And she said, “If you hold your intention of wanting to be anywhere as soon as you step in there, you will arrive there instantly.” And she said, “That's what I learned while I was dying, and I now feel obligated to come back and teach people that they are not stuck in the Earth plane if they just learn what true spirituality is and what God really is. They'll realize that God is very, very loving and that it's only their minds that are keeping them stuck there.” And so, she said, “I chose you guys to reactivate my knowledge of who I really am and what I carry in me. And because of who you three are, you have exactly what I need to reactivate.”

Ben:  Will you or do you plan on sharing these stories with Zoe?

Paul:  Of course.

Ben:  Yeah.

Paul:  Absolutely. Fact, I bought a bunch of books on Taiwan and some videos to show him so he can start remembering. And he actually has told me, one time when he was about three and a half, I don't remember the exact wording, but the girls were driving in the car with Mana and they were talking about something, and all of a sudden, he looked at them, he said, “You know, I used to be a farmer.” And they said, “What do you mean?” He said, “Before I came here, I was a farmer.” And they were in shock because the girls knew the story because obviously–

Ben:  Yeah. But he didn't, he hadn't heard the story.

Paul:  He didn't. He wasn't even born yet. And he started telling them all about his life as a farmer. And unfortunately, it was a communist regime and white flower showed me she lived in a very tough life. The military, for some reason, lined up her whole family and shot him all in the head, and left her, and forced her to manage the entire farm by herself. So, she had acres and acres of rice that she had to raise and she showed me visions of them beating her and smacking her in the face with butts of guns and just torturing her. And Mana is extremely rebellious to any kind of control. He is not an easy kid to raise because he resists being told anything what to do. And having lectured in Russia, I've experienced what it's like when communist people get freedom.

For example, when I lectured Moscow, I asked everybody to turn off their phones and they started picking their phones up and talking on them. And I'm like, “What is going on?” So, I said to them, “Please turn off your phone. How are you going to understand anything if I'm here to lecture to you and you're in the class to learn? You can't listen to your phone.” And so, they got even more excited and talked even more. And my buddy Rush Maxim, who's an Olympic world champion from the Russian Olympic weightlifting team, he's a buddy of mine, he was in the class and he stood up. And he said to them in Russian, “Communicate.” And then, they all put their phones down.

Ben:  I was going to say maybe they just don't speak English.

Paul:  No, no. He said to me, “Paul, because you're asking them to put their phones away in a tone of voice like a command, and they hate being told what to do because we just came from a communist regime. So, they react by doing the opposite to prove to you that you can't control them.” So, I asked them to please put the phone away in a way that they would appreciate. And then, they put their phones away. So, having already been through this experience of how people get rebellious–

Ben:  I wonder how he phrased it.

Paul:  Yeah. I don't know remember what he said, but he's also world-famous there. He would be like Kobe Bryant walking around the room or something. The kids told me why they're here. They both said the same things. And actually, Zoe, who at that time was Anna, and that's the name she had in her last life, showed me visions of her lifetime with Mana. Three lifetimes ago, they lived in India. And Mana made these beautiful–you know like Buddhist scrolls where you roll them down and hang them on the wall? He wrote scriptures on these beautiful handmade parchment papers, and then he attached wooden dowels to them and rolled them, and sold them to people, and he did his own calligraphy. And she was his helper partner, and that they were like a husband and wife team. And he showed me he had a big wooden table like this, and he laid them out, and he used calligraphy ink, and he wrote scripture, key scriptures, and sold them to people, and that's what they did for a living.

Ben:  Wow. That's amazing.

Paul:  Yeah.

Ben:  You've mentioned probably 20 books so far since we've been talking.

Paul:  Well, you're lucky. I could mention 200.

Ben:  I know, you could. We are literally surrounded by hundreds of books.

Paul:  Thousands, actually.

Ben:  Thousands in your personal library. I think I have many people who I know who listen to my show. I'm sure you also on yours, who love education, love books, just the nature of these long, deep-dive podcasts. Do you have a certain habit that you used to be able to digest books at such a rapid pace that you digest them and keep track of the information because you recite it so readily?

Paul:  Well, I'm not nearly as good as I used to be because I reached a certain point of mental fatigue because I used to be like you, I used to remember all the hormone pathways. It's not a natural way. I hated reading when I was a kid. I failed reading in the third grade.

Ben:  Surprises me.

Paul:  I never read a book cover to cover 'til I was 21. The first book I ever read in my life was “Nutritional Holistic Approach” by Rudolph Ballentine, MD. It was the only one that could hold my attention. I'd read Playboy before that, but that was about it. And I read Hot Rod magazines because I was into racing and building engines. But reading has always been very hard for me. I'm much more of a right-brain person. And so, I developed–

Ben:  That would surprise a lot of people.

Paul:  Yeah. I developed a skill by practicing and practicing, and there was a period in my life where I used to read quite often 8 or 10 hours a day on the weekends. And sometimes I would read 'til 2:00 in the morning on every other day. And I'd read 'til midnight after work at night because this is when I was younger and I was developing my skills and my career. But I put a tremendous amount of effort into remembering. I mean, I've taught anatomy all over the world. I could tell you every muscle joint ligament, nerve pathway, Meridian, all of that was just lasered into my mind because I really realize that for me to accomplish my objective in my career, I had to be able to interface with the medical–

Ben:  And the best way to learn is to teach.

Paul:  Yeah. I had to interface with the medical community. And if you go to a doctor and you say pronation or something, they look at you like you're an idiot. So, I've got like 35 different dictionaries. I studied dictionaries. I worked really hard. But by the time I was about 45, I just felt like–I looked at how much energy it took me to constantly pack all that in and memorize it, and I realized how exhausting it was and how it was taking me away from the essence of things. Having done energy healing for a long, long time in my life, and meditation, I realized that I actually have enough knowledge that if I just use my innate skills for reading energy, and sensing what's going on, and working with spirit, that I always get to the issue, but I don't have to remember all that.

So, I found that I developed enough knowledge that it was actually better for me to not try so hard to develop intellectual knowledge because it was stopping me from having the time to do my spiritual work. And I found that by growing myself spiritually, that spirit would guide me to exactly what I needed to know, and it's helped me figure out a million things, and just showed me that my time was better spent practicing being in stillness and no mind, and learning to listen to the environment, listen to the stones, the trees, the plants, the bodies of the people I'm working with, the feelings of people instead of just the words. And so, I begin to relax it and just trust my soul to guide me to what I needed to read.

Ben:  But you still read a massive amount.

Paul:  Oh, I do. I read about–

Ben:  You showed me the pile of books against your reading chair waiting to be read.

Paul:  Yeah. I read between an hour and three hours a day, which–

Ben:  In the morning?

Paul:  Yeah, early in the morning, and it's all research reading for projects. And some of it's spiritual reading that inspires them.

Ben:  How do you take care of your notes in the books?

Paul:  Well, the method that I use, actually, I learned from studying Brian Tracy's work probably 30 years ago, and it's called the OPIR Method. Are you familiar with that?

Ben:  No.

Paul:  OPIR is an acronym, Overview. So, first, what you do is you look at the description of the book on the back of the book, you flip through it, you look to see if there's any interesting diagrams. You look at the names of the chapters and the contents, and see, is there anything that's captivating to you? You look at the table of index to see if there's keywords, like for me, I'm always looking for soul spirit consciousness.

Ben:  I could see you looking at the table of contents of my book.

Paul:  Yes, because then I know roughly what's in the book very quickly, right? So, Overview. Preview means read things like the introduction, or chapter summaries, or things that give you an encapsulation. And then, Overview, Preview. Inview means to read the whole book, if you think it's interesting enough and it's worth your time. And then, Review is you come back and read the parts that are important for you to remember because they're something that you're using in a functional way. And so, I also have a system of highlighting where I use a red underline to mean important. I use a double red underline to mean more important. I use a double red underline with yellow highlighter to mean if you're in a hurry, look right here. And then, if there's something–

Ben:  And to know that a page has been highlighted, do you fold over that page, or do you have a mark that you put in it, like a bookmark?

Paul:  Well, no, because I–

Ben:  Or a Sticky.

Paul:  What I do is I keep a note in the margin on the page.

Ben:  Right. So, if you're flipping through the page left to right, flipping through the page, you can see on the left side of that page, or the right side for right-sided page [01:33:03] _____.

Paul:  But let's say this is something about biodynamic farming, and it's a key point, maybe how to make biodynamic 505 homoeopathic. I would put here biodynamic 505 homoeopathic, and then I would take the Page Number 90, and I list it in the front cover, and I keep going. So, when I pick up the book, I can look at it and I have my own table of contents based on what's important to me.

Ben:  Oh, that's smart. I like that.

Paul:  Yeah. You'll see that in all my books. So, in a few seconds, I can spot it. And then, if there's more than will fit in there, I use Sticky pages. And some of my books are loaded with like 40 Sticky pages.

Ben:  Yeah. I noticed that. Yeah, coming up out of the actual pages is those Sticky Notes, which is something I have yet to do. I got in the habit of folding. And so, most of my books are very worn because all the pages where there's something important highlighted or folded over. Well, there's a couple of things. A, that concept of taking the most important elements of the book comes in very handy if you do have children because like I was telling you, I select the book from my bookshelf each week and give it to my boys. They each get their own book to read and produce a one to two-page book report on by the end of the week. But if I hand them a pretty massive tome, some 400-page book, like they're reading one on the “Marma Points of Ayurveda” right now–

Paul:  You mean like your last book?

Ben:  Or like “Boundless,” yeah. I haven't made them read that.

Paul:  That would be too much.

Ben:  They can flip to the pages that are folded over, see what dad has highlighted because when I read books now, I think about reading not only through my own eyes, but through the eyes of my boys. And even though each unique individual is going to find what speaks to them, I almost feel like I can filter to a certain extent what I consider to be some really important elements that they should pay attention to. So, that's been useful for me. And then, probably a habit in the past two years that I've really given myself permission to adopt is quitting a book, stopping a book for the longest time.

And I've always been a little bit resistant to watching movies because I'm wired in such a way that even if the movie sucks, I want to see how it finishes. I want to see how the story finishes. Thank God for the internet now because I'll literally just, if I start a movie and it sucks, I will go, and in five minutes, read the spoiler of the movie, just so I know what happened. But with books, I probably quit 50% of the books that I read now. And sometimes it will be the preview. And you get halfway through a book, and I don't know about you, but sometimes you'll notice that an author in the last half of the book is just using filler material. They wrote half the book, and then they're like, “What do I do with the other 150 pages I've been contracting to write [01:35:44] _____…

Paul:  Yeah. There's two chapters for the material out of 400 pages or something.

Ben:  …word count, the publisher is paying me royalty to write?” And so, a lot of times, you'll find that the first half or so of the book is excellent. And I've just given myself permission to quit the book once it starts to become stale, or I feel as though I've harnessed as much knowledge of it I'm going to get, which is also why the preview is important. You must [01:36:04] _____ what's coming.

Paul:  Yeah. I have another level to my system I haven't told you about, but before I buy a book, I always ask my soul, “Is this book worth buying? Is it useful to us?” If I get to know, no matter how good it looks, I don't buy it because I've bought a lot of books that looked interesting by reading the covers and turned out to be $2 worth of useful information and $38 worth of shit. So, the first thing I do is ask myself, “Should I buy it?” I buy a lot of books. I don't know how many thousands of dollars I spend, obviously. I've got a half-million dollars of books.

Ben:  I got [01:36:39] _____ nothing for that level of knowledge. It's nothing.

Paul:  Right.

Ben:  It's worth millions.

Paul:  You saw there's about 50 books sitting by my chair, and I know what I'm working on in my new book, so I know what the key chapters are going to be. I already have the outline in my head. So, what I'll do is I'll just act to ask my soul, “Is there one of these books that you would like me to read based on my studies of, say, consciousness this morning?” And if I get a yes, then I'll say, “Is it here?” And if I get it a yes, I'll just relax and say, “Show me which book it is.” And my soul moves my eyes and it focuses on that book. So, I pick it up and say, “Is it this one?” Yes. And then, I hold it to my heart and say, “Tell me when you know what you want me to read,” and I can feel my soul scanning the whole book. In a few seconds, my soul will read the whole book. And then, I'll get a yes, and I'll say, “Okay.” I'll go to the first page of the table of contents and say, “Okay. Is the chapter you want me to read on this page?” No. “Is it on this page?” No. “Is it on this page?” Yes. And then, I just say, “Show me which one,” and I relax my eyes, and all of a sudden, my sole focus is on Page 234 Union Chapter 10. And so, I confirm, “You want me to read Chapter 10 Union?” Yes.

Ben:  That reminds me of the intuitive eating that we talked about last time as your nutritional protocol, intuitive reading.

Paul:  Yeah.

Ben:  I like that. The other thing that I do quite a bit of is I use really good book summary websites.

Paul:  Yeah. That's a good idea.

Ben:  Like for books that I know I really want to get the core message out of, because perhaps it's a book that, whatever, everyone is talking about, and so I need to be someone informed on it but don't have time to read the entire thing, or it's mildly interesting, but I have to pick my battles when it comes to books. I'll use–Optimize is one website.

Paul:  Well, that's cool.

Ben:  Mostly philosophy books.

Paul:  That's good.

Ben:  Yeah. Self-improvement books, wonderful, PDF, downloadable audio.

Paul:  Optimize, optimize.com.

Ben:  So, yeah. There's a few sources I use. One is Optimize. One is Blinkist.

Paul:  I've used that one.

Ben:  Blinkist is okay. One is Thinkr, spelled without an “E,” T-H-I-N-K-R. These are the five sources I use. I can usually find just about any decent book summary because I've vetted a lot of book summary websites. The last two are James Clear. He is an author who also does excellent book summaries and ratings. And the last guy is Derek Sivers, S-I-V-E-R-S. And those are the five sources that I use to typically, on top of anywhere from five to eight books per month, that I'm actually reading. I could get through another 20 to 30 or so on a monthly basis just by taking 10, 15 minutes to go through the entire book summary.

Paul:  What I used to do is– you know Cliffs, you ever heard of CliffsNotes?

Ben:  Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.

Paul:  So, I used to go check the CliffsNotes–

Ben:  Many college students' best friend.

Paul:  Yeah. So, I would buy the CliffsNotes for any of the subject matters I could find in any of the CliffsNotes books or university courses. So, for example, I have on the nervous system or their hormonal system, I've got these CliffsNotes typed summary books, or I've got neuroanatomy made easy. I found for me, what was most important and has been is anytime I enter a new field of study, always to study the best books on the basics. People tend to want to get too fancy-dancy. And if you don't have the basic underpinning, you don't understand the meanings of the words, the structure of the belief system or the concept, then you can actually delude yourself into thinking you know what you're doing.

And I've seen that a million times in my students' end, and doctors, and therapists I've worked with all over the world that they actually have what can be dangerous knowledge? They might, for example, know all about how cortisone cream works, but have no understanding of why their cortisol levels are high and how diet, lifestyle, and mental-emotional stress can raise that up. So, they deal with all the technical hormones, but they never ask, well, how did it get that way in the first place? So, for me, it's like I have to understand the basics of psychology, I got to understand the basics of physiology, I got to understand endocrinology, I got to understand psychoneuroimmunology.

So, for me, as a holistic health practitioner, I've spent my whole life studying not only the key systems of the body, not only psychic, but physical, but how do they interact with each other. How does the hormone system affect your mood, your emotions? Or how does it affect your athletic performance, or your recoverability, or your sex drive? To me, life is like a spider web. You can't pull on any part of a spider web without affecting the whole web. So, if someone raises your testosterone, that's going to affect your estrogen, that's going to affect your sexual performance, the moisture of your tissues, how many times you blink your eyes, dot, dot, dot. So, I'm always looking, how does the web work? What happens if you pull on it over here at the hormonal system? What happens if you stretch it too hard or work it too hard on the musculoskeletal? What happens if you're depressed, or you're going through a divorce, or you just lost your job, or you're eating junk food, or you're toxic because you got heavy metal poisoning? So, my life has really been about looking at how the dominos connect together. And so, my work really, it took me a lot of years, probably 20 years of studying the basics of all those systems so that if I had to go into the advanced level training, that I had a foundation so I could understand what an endocrinology was talking about, or what a neurologist was talking about.

Ben:  Which is why it's important to be well-read because each of those books is a thread in the spider web. By reading one book, you'll get one thread, but very few authors will write a comprehensive analysis of all the components that affect the endocrine system, especially in the health, and fitness, and nutrition, as for each person has relatively myopic viewpoints. And in the little bit of time that we have left–these discussions always go by so quickly.

Paul:  I don't even know how long I've been talking, 20 minutes.

Ben:  I've got about 10 minutes.

Paul:  Okay.

Ben:  I wanted to ask you because we do have a lot of people who are listening to us, who are very interested, and in some cases, accomplished in the realm of health and fitness, and who's so-called health professionals who listen in. People like me–you are someone who has seen a lot in this industry. You've talked to a lot of guys and girls like me who are…the young up-and-comers of people–

Paul:  There's nobody like you, Ben.

Ben:  Well, yeah. We're all–

Paul:  I've only talked to one Ben Greenfield.

Ben:  We're all snowflakes, but what piece of advice would you give to people like me who are kind of like in that phase where we've gathered some knowledge, we're helping people, but we want to continue to make deep impact in people's lives? When you look around you, because I know you've interviewed many, say, like 20 to 40-year-old professionals in the health industry, you've podcast with many of them, what would you say, when it comes to ways that we can grow, or a mindset that we can go or we can use going forward, to really make maximum impact? A bit of a selfish question really, but I'm just curious what you see in a guy like me that you think would be a piece of sage advice going forward.

Paul:  For me, having learned this through a lot of life experience is really simple. There's an old saying, “The longest journey you'll ever take is only a foot long. It's from your head to your heart.” And as I grew spiritually, I realized my head was an ineffective compass. It's too easily distracted. It's too easily tricked by what looks like scientific jargon. And lo and behold, I've been in this career for 37 years, and what was a scientific fact yesterday is just flat out wrong today, yet 20 years ago, I thought for sure I was right, and it's a miracle that people got better because now I know scientifically what I was doing wasn't working. It was just my love for the person. It was my enthusiasm. It was my intention to help them heal. So, in other words, I was healing them through psychic means more than I was biochemical means because based on today's science, what I was doing shouldn't work, right?

Ben:  Right.

Paul:  So, if science is right today, then what I was doing then was wrong, but somehow, people were getting better a lot faster with me than other people because it was just less wrong than they were. But the point that I'm making is as I've grown, and I've grown deeper spiritually and worked more and more with my soul in the last 20 years, I found that the things that I remember most as knowledge are the things that I was passionate about because I was doing it because it was genuinely an interest of mine, not something I thought I had to do to make money or somebody else wanted me to do to pass a test.

Ben:  And what you got the world expected you to be.

Paul:  Right.

Ben:  Yeah.

Paul:  So, I studied things. For me, the most important thing was, will this knowledge help me help people versus just make me a smart guy? And when I found that I could help people, then it was important to me to really be present with the material. So, I attached the emotion of positive feelings of this is one day going to help one or more people heal. And I found that my memory recall directly links to the things that I had a passionate reason for a positive application in the world versus just studying, or learning to learn, or trying to prove to myself and everybody else I'm a smart guy.

Then I've always found that if I'm actually listening to my heart, like I'm writing the book I'm about to write because I have a very profound and strong sense of pressure in me that's been building for the last several years, that it is very important for me to take as much of the things I've learned about why we're really here, what life's all about, and how to navigate it because I've demonstrated to myself thousands of times that when I let my soul guide me, my whole life is not only better, but I navigate minefields like financial stress, COVID, business challenges, in ways that I never could do with my head leading my way.

So, my advice is, for example, I teach people how to do soul connection in my Primal Pattern Eating course. So, if you learn that basic technology and start practicing it, and asking, should I read this book? Should I buy this book? Should I take this job? What color of socks should I wear today?” You're standing at the supermarket and there's all sorts of food in front of you. What does my inner self say? I want Oreo cookies, but my soul is dragging me over to the salmon counter. I should listen to that, right? And when I teach people how to feel, how their soul influences them, a lot of them go, “Oh my god, I've been feeling that my whole life, and I didn't know what it was. I've been ignoring it.” I'm like, “Yeah. That's God trying to guide you so you can do what you came here to do.”

So, really, it's a matter of checking in with yourself and using yourself as though you're a living instrument. And when the needle has that sense of yes, that sense of ah–Ben, when you're hearing the truth, do you know it in your head or do you know it with your whole body?

Ben:  Whole body.

Paul:  Your whole body. And when your heart tells you that's the direction to go in, you know it with your whole body because your heart is the center of your chakra system. It integrates the upper and lower chakra, and it is the vital organ that connects us to the feeling of love. And ultimately, love is the most powerful force of life, and wisdom, and intimacy, and connection there is. So, I find that the more I let love guide me, i.e. soul, with the intention of sharing love and bringing love, knowing that I'm going to die one day and all I can take with me is what I've become, then I orient my life around how can I give the best of myself in any situation so that when I die and have to come face to face with myself, I can feel good about the life I've lived and know that I didn't just try to prove things to people, be a smart ass, make lots of money. I really tried to leave the garden a little better than how I found it. And so, that's my guiding principle.

Ben:  Yeah. You know, a repeated theme of our discussion today I think has been listening, just shutting your mouth, shutting off the logical, rational brain, listening to yourself, listening to the universe, listening to sacred intelligence. And, Paul, as usual, your enthusiasm is infectious. That's why you're a good teacher. Your enthusiasm is amazing. And I'm honored to have had this discussion with you.

Paul:  Thank you. I love visiting you. I wanted to get into your book and I didn't realize we're out of time. So, we'll have to get together, but Ben has a beautiful book for my listeners called “Fit Soul: Tools, Tactics & Habits for Optimizing Spiritual Fitness.” It's got a beautiful cover with like a–what is that? What kind of shield is that, Norse or something?

Ben:  That is a knight adorned with a cross and…

Paul:  Right. A knight shield.

Ben:  …elements of the armor of the spirit.

Paul:  And a big sword. And it's got a lot of great topics in the chapter. I told you already Chapter 10 Union, but it's Fit for Detachment, The Breakfast Plate of Presence, Don't Let Old Friends Die, Time and Trust, Make Every Moment Count, The Hidden Epidemic, Be A Man, How to Find Your Purpose In Life, You're Not The Hero. You might be. The Four Spiritual Disciplines I Practice, and a lot more.

Ben:  You've just taken care of the O of the OPIR for people, given the Overview.

Paul:  Yes, yes, exactly. What I love about it, too, is he's got key points written in another color of ink, which is lovely.

Ben:  Yes. That's what you get to do when you self-publish a book, is you can do the funny things that a publisher won't allow you to do.

Paul:  So, anyhow, look it up, “Fit Soul: Tools, Tactics & Habits for Optimizing Spiritual Fitness.”

Ben:  It's free. It's a free book.

Paul:  Is it?

Ben:  Yeah. I mean, I just wanted to make a difference in the world with that book. So, you can download it for free.

Paul:  See, there you go.

Ben:  You just go to fitsoulbook.com and get it free. And then, if you want the print copy, all I did was charge just enough so that I can pay to print it and ship it. So, I don't make any money off that book. That thing is just–I just wanted to get a message out to the world.

Paul:  Well, I'm just glad I could share. Maybe another time we can talk about some of the themes of the chapters and–

Ben:  Well, as usual, I feel as though this won't be the last time we talk.

Paul:  I hope not. I got more rocks to lift with you, baby.

Ben:  That's right, baby. Alright, folks. Well, I will put the shownotes on my end at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/benandpaul for any of you who want to dive into all the books and resources, and my previous discussions with Paul. We've had many, probably six or seven at this point. And as usual, Paul, it's an honor.

Paul:  Love you, buddy.

Ben:  Thank you, man. Thank you.

Paul:  I'm really proud of you, and how you're raising your kids, and how you're managing yourself. I'm glad to see the example you're sharing with people. So, lots of love.

Ben:  Love you, man.

Paul:  Aho.

Well, thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the shownotes, the resources, pretty much everything that I mentioned over at BenGreenfieldFitness.com, along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful “Ben Recommends” page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormone, sleep, digestion, fat loss, performance, and plenty more. Please, also, know that all the links, all the promo codes, that I mentioned during this and every episode, helped to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. When you listen in, be sure to use the links in the shownotes, use the promo codes that I generate, because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.



For over 20 years, Paul Chek’s unique, holistic health approach to treatment and education has transformed the lives of countless men and women through programs like the P~P~S Success Mastery Program. He is a world-renowned expert in developing practical and effective methods for addressing all aspects of well-being, both physical and mental.

Paul has been a podcast guest of mine on many previous episodes, and I on his. 

My interviews with Paul include:

Paul's interviews with me include:

In 1995, he founded the CHEK Institute to accommodate an ever-growing clientele and to train and certify future CHEK Practitioners. Not surprisingly, Paul is sought after as an international presenter and consultant for successful organizations like the Chicago Bulls, Australia’s Canberra Raiders, and the U.S. Air Force Academy. He has produced more than 50 videos, 6 books, and 16 advanced-level home study courses while regularly contributing to several publications and websites such as Mercola.com and Personal Training on the Net.

As a walking, talking definition of success, Paul has become above all an educator—teaching and applying his methods to benefit others through lectures, multimedia, and, most recently, in the areas of personal, professional, and spiritual development through the P~P~S Success Mastery Program.

During this discussion, you'll discover:

-BioGeometry and why Paul calls his house the “Rainbow House”…5:30

-Second sight and how we can “see” what is happening in the spiritual realm around us…15:55

  • We all have a “third eye” that allows us to “see” the spirit world
  • Atoms possess a tremendous amount of energy, which forms what we perceive as matter
  • Matter is spirit moving slowly enough that you can interact with it
  • Unresolved mental and emotional trauma build up a wall in your psychic filtration system
  • When people haven't healed adequately, their soul does not want them jumping into other dimensions; healing has to happen where you're at; the body carries a memory of all that trauma that actually lives inside it
    • Feelings buried alive never die
  • Energy shapes form; form always follows function, but form also follows energy
  • If a person has a lot of pain, trauma, trapped emotions, resentment, guilt, shame, judgment, that thought field changes the structure of how the biochemistry of the body moves

-How to use BioGeometry in your own home…22:05

-How paramagnetism, the sun's energy, and “thought forms” were used to build the pyramids…33:35

-Tobacco, volcanic, and herb blends to enhance your life…48:10

  • The Healing Herbcourse at the CHEK Institute
  • Gavin's line of smoke mixes for vaporizing at the CHEK store
  • Tobacco has certain culinary uses
    • Tobacco ice cream
  • Piperineis used as a smoking cessation treatment
  • Northern Shag tobacco has the lowest amount of nicotine
  • Nicotine is dopaminergic
  • Stigma with tobacco is largely thanks to the commercial cigarette industry

-About Paul's upcoming book…58:05

  • Why are we here, and why is the world so f-ing crazy?
  • What is consciousness?
  • Toolkit for practices to engage in healthy communication, see how consciousness grows
  • We transcend each level, but include it in our existence
    • Archaic
    • Magic (biology)
    • Mythic (paintings, carvings, etc. did not have mouths on humans)
    • Mental (hybrid of beliefs)
    • Integral
  • Seeing Through the Worldby Jeremy Johnson
  • Belief systems are actually limiting us

-Why simply listening is the best way to learn anything…1:05:40

  • Tim Corcoran's course at the Twin Eagles Wilderness Schoolthat Ben's boys are going to attend
  • To be healthy, you must transcend each level, but include it
  • Our culture is heavily trapped in the mental level

-Paul's thoughts on raising young children as an older man…1:11:20

  • Steiner/Waldorf schools
  • Stories with an educational tone, act out roles to learn morals
  • Power of make-believe and imagination has been marginalized in modern education
  • We're smart and dumb at the same time

-How Paul learned the “backstory” of his two children and the impact they'll make in the world…1:15:20

-Paul's habit for digesting books and keeping track of what he learns…1:26:30

  • More of a right-brain person; reading has always been a challenge
  • Diet and Nutrition: A Holistic Approachby Rodolph Ballentine, first book Paul read
  • Used to read 8-10 hours per day
  • Realized reading and learning were taking him away from the “essence” of things
  • Use innate skills to get to the issue without the need to remember everything
  • Current practice is to read 1-3 hours daily, mostly for research
  • Brian Tracy's OPIR method
    • Overview
    • Preview
    • Inview
    • Review
  • Keep notes in page margins to remember key thoughts and takeaways
  • Personalized table of contents
  • Read through your eyes, as well as those of your children when you pass it on to them
  • Permission to quit a book when you're through with it
  • Ask your soul, “Is this worth it to me?”
  • Book summary websites:
  • One book is one thread in the web, so to speak

-Advice for health professionals to make a lasting and meaningful impact…1:43:30

  • The longest journey you'll ever take is one foot long; from your head to your heart
  • Will my knowledge help people, or will it just make me smart?
  • Allow your soul to guide you, rather than the head
  • Primal Pattern eating course (CHEK Institute)
  • You know the truth with your whole body, not your head
  • Fit Soul

Resources from this episode:

– Paul Chek:

– BioGeometry

– Podcasts with Paul Chek:

– Ben on Paul Chek's Blog:

– Podcasts:

– Books:

– Other resources:

Episode sponsors:

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