[00:00] Kion Discounts/Thrive Market Discounts
[04:43] About Dr. Dan Pompa
[10:07] Dr. Pompa's Effects from the Stem Cell Procedure
[16:24] Dr. Pompa's Fasting Protocol
[25:44] On Bind, CytoDetox & Fasting
[40:40] Omax3Ultra Pure/Organifi Gold
[43:49] Following Seasonal Diet Variations
[59:21] Following the Five-One-One Method
[1:14:44] Dr. Pompa's Children Practicing Fasting
[1:19:17] Seven Things That Happen in an Extended Fast
[1:22:14] Dr. Pompa's Fasting Challenge
[1:27:59] End of the Podcast
Ben: Hey, it's Ben Greenfield. When I have an amazing podcast for you, it makes me so happy. I want to sing. This podcast is really good today, it's really good 'cause I got to interview one of my friends who I just geek out with, and it's like you get to be a fly in the wall. So if you dig the idea of being a fly, you'll love this episode, I guess. It's with my friend, Dr. Dan Pompa himself, and before we jump in, I do want to tell you about something very special, if I can talk. I almost lisped there, accidentally. I'm having a big old Fourth of July sale. Happy Fourth of July to all of you Americans, you know what? Happy Fourth of July to everybody, but also to Americans especially. At the time that you're listening to this, by the way, I'm in Estonia. I'm not even in America, I moved my whole family to Estonia for the month. How cool is that? We're learning Estonian, we're touring castles. I even brought my bow, I'm shooting my bow and arrow inside of a castle, that's pretty fun.
Anyways though, back to the topic at hand, 20% off of every single item in my store at Kion, K-I-O-N. Very simple, you go to getkion.com, that's getK-I-O-N.com. Here's the code, get ready, write this down, 20% off of everything. Colostrum,
the Flex supplement, my anti-aging skin serum, my amazing oregano that I traveled over here to Estonia with to keep me bulletproof when I'm flying on airplanes, all that. You use code “July20”, “July20”. Not like July the Twentieth, but like July-twenty-percent, get it? So “July20” at getkion.com. J-U-L-Y-2-0, getkion.com, K-I-O-N. Knock yourself out, fill out your shopping carts, there's tons of goodies over there.
This podcast is also brought to you by Thrive Market. Thrive Market is the place where I get coconut meat cereal, I get coconut oil there, I get coconut mana there, and no, it's not a coconut store. No it's a store for anything, they let you get and sort, with this special filter, any grocery item you want. They've got non-GMO, sustainably-farmed, fair trade-certified, Paleo-free, gluten-free, vegan, kosher, ketogenic, you name it. You could probably even get ketogenic, vegan nuts. Anything, it knocks my socks off, but the coolest thing is it's affordable. It's actually not going to break your bank, all of their packaging and boxes and inserts are made from recycled material, 100% zero waste. So you think that this stuff would just cost an arm and a leg. Seventy percent of what they have there, you can't find on Amazon, but better yet, they've knocked their prices to rock bottom. You pay 25 to 50% below traditional retail prices, and in addition to that, they're giving you 60 bucks of free organic groceries, plus free shipping and a 30-day trial to their Thrive Market membership, just for being a handy-dandy listener to this show 'cause you're that special. So to get in on this, go to thrivemarket.com/bengreenfield. The URL again is Thrive Market, just like it sounds, slash-Ben-Greenfield. Alright, let's go chat with my friend, Dan.
In this episode of The Ben Greenfield Fitness Show:
“She had seven concussions, and she had been to the best of the best, and she had tried everything, done everything. My cellular detox and the fasting transformed her world, and it fixed her. As a matter of fact, it put her back into competition which she didn't think she was every going to be able to compete again.”
“And my boys are carrying buckets around the yard, stopping and doing burpees. I didn't say a thing to them, right? They just saw dad doing it and realize that this was a good cool thing to do, and in many cases, that's what it comes down to me is being a good example.”
Ben: Hey folks, it’s Ben Greenfield here, and I have not only one of my favorite guys in the world to hang out with on the podcast today, a guy who whenever especially in or near Park City, Utah, I geek out with. I stayed at his house, I hang out, with he and his wife. He's become a really great friend over the past couple of years, but also I would say that the guy you're about to hear me jam with is somebody who I look up to. You know, there's not a lot of people in the wellness world who I can consider to really have things dialed in, not only from a fitness standpoint and a nutrition standpoint and a cognitive performance standpoint, but also family and spiritual life and some of those things that I also hold dear. It's hard for me, in many cases, to connect with guys who kind of have a lot of things dialed in from all standpoints of mind, body and spirit optimization, and so for me to be able to look up to guys like the guy who you're about to hear from on today's show is pretty special and I feel incredibly blessed to know him. His name is Dr. Dan Pompa, Dan's been on the show before. One of the most comprehensive episodes I ever did on detoxification and this concept of cellular toxicity, I did with Dr. Pompa.
He's considered, in the circles that I roll around in to be an icon and one of the leading experts on detoxing, but he also travels around the world, and he educates practitioners and chiropractic docs and the general public on the root causes of chronic diseases and inflammation and toxicity. He is a wealth of knowledge on fat loss, on hypothyroidism, diabetes, chronic fatigue syndrome, autoimmune conditions, and in the case of today's show, some really interesting theories and I would say very forward thinking knowledge regarding what is called diet variation, feast famine cycles and ketosis, and I should mention, in addition to that, that Dr. Pompa and I have both visited Park City, Utah, where Dr. Pompa actually lives, and undergone the full body or spinal exosome and stem cell treatment at Dr. Harry Adelson's clinic down there, and so we both hold the mutual experience of having undergone an incredible number of injections of stem cells and exosomes up and down our spines and beyond. So that being said, Dan, welcome back to the show, dude.
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, man, thanks for having me. Yeah, quite the experience, and I have to admit, you have to understand Harry puts you out, right? So you wake up three hours later.
Ben: Dr. Harry Adelson, yeah.
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, Dr. Harry Adelson, and your whole body is infused with stem cells. I mean literally, it turns back the clock ten years. Well twenty, in my case. Maybe ten in your case, Ben, so I waited around in the recovery room because when you come out, you say some silly things. I sure did, and I waited around.
Ben: This is when you waited around for me after I had been under anesthesia, and you had offered kindly to be the guy who could drive me home back to your house, where I was staying.
Dr. Pompa: That's right, exactly. So I'm there and your wife is there. You know I'm thinking we might get some funny things. You know first of all, he was talking, [talking indistinctly] like most of us I'm sure do, right? We found ourselves talking like I pretty sure did, but then the next way starts coming to, I'm thinking here comes the good stuff, and then Ben says I have a confession to make. And then at that point, I was looking for the door because I'm thinking oh, you know his wife is there, I'm there. I don't know where this is going, I mean it's like truth serum, you know? But it was okay because Ben said, I have to admit. The confession was that I am French and that he went on to try to speak French, so pretty funny about it.
Ben: Yeah, it was actually. For those of you listening in, just go to bengreefieldfitness.com/feastfamine, that's bengreenfieldfitness.com/feastfamine, and I will link to the hilarious video that ensued, and you can hear Dan in the background and I can just imagine him shuffling towards the door, expecting me to say something incredibly embarrassing like whatever. I have a third child I conceived on a Filipino island who's subsisting on coconuts, but it was that I speak French, and then I went on to say a bunch of other random things. So if you guys wanna see the actual video of me with my face all puffy and swollen, post-stem cell surgery, I'll link to that and also the videos from the full-body stem cell treatment. What I wanted to ask you, Dan, was you got this treatment, I think, a couple of months before me 'cause I remember you went to our favorite restaurant there in Salt Lake, Veneto's Italian Restaurant, where there are fabulous wines, and because stem cells, one of the things their most sensitive to is alcohol, you weren't really drinking. You would occasionally, I think, grab my glass and take a tiny little sip of what's the guy who owns that place?
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, Marco.
Ben: Yeah, Marco, amazing place, so you weren't drinking because alcohol is horrible for stem cells. One of the worst things you can do when you've had a stem cell injection or you're preparing to give one, but you have also had the ability for the stuff to be able to sit in your system longer than I have. I'm about a month out from the treatment, you've had it for a while. Have you noticed much as far as the way that you feel or any changes after getting the stem cell procedure?
Dr. Pompa: You know, years ago in my 20s, I herniated my disk in my back and just tortured, even fractured my neck, so I was really getting to the point where it was getting worse, to the point where I did the ski last year and I couldn't. So I can tell you it's just been over three months, and I mean I can fully put my palms on the ground for the first time without pain, and I can do things that I've never been able to do again, so it's been really transformative for my low back, and again my knee as well. I had a meniscus tear, and there, that's healing. So I mean really, when I tell you that it takes years off, your joints, it sure does, and just injuries, old injuries and I tell you. Going to be 53 here soon, and my body now feels like back in my 20s and 30s again, so it's working.
Ben: What did they do with you? Did they take the exosomes and inject those into the joints, or did they take the stem cells out from your bone marrow? What exact procedure did you get for your disks and your knee?
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, I got it drawn from my fat, probably 'cause I'm a little older and you have a little more viable stem cells in your fat when you get older, but I also got them from my bone as well as you did, and then I did get exosomes as well. Exosomes, really, they're not cells. They're not stem cells, but they're what actually stem cells produce to activate your body into healing. I think you've probably done some shows on it, but not many people around the world are actually doing these exosomes, but they're extremely powerful, especially when combined with your stem cells. Your stem cells literally take up the exosomes, and they activate the healing. You know the old philosophy of the stem cells would get into those tissues that need healed, and they would really jut create new cells, but really the stem cells activate and release these things called exosomes. It activates your body into developing the healing and more stem cells.
Ben: Yeah, it's pretty interesting, and I actually haven't talked about them much before on the podcast. I think probably on my episode on the full-body stem cell makeover that I did is going to come out after this podcast that folks are listening to right now, but yeah, there's cell-to-cell signaling molecules, these exosomes. Just so you can combine them with stem cells and the way that Dr. Adelson, who operated on you and I, describes it, that it's super-charging stem cells. And so you actually get the stem cells carried more efficiently to the areas of the joints that they're needed most, and you also bypass some of the issues with placental cells not being available in the US for treatment, and by using exosomes instead, you skirt that whole issue, and you get an extremely efficient stem cell procedure done. When they do your back, did they inject the actual disks, or do they inject the area around the disks?
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, you know he uses a procedure under thoracoscopy, so it's like using an x-ray, and he goes in exactly where he needs to put the stem cells, and yes, he went right into my disk and injected. I'll tell you, it feels like I have a new back, it feels like my disk is completely regenerated. I did something else unique. Last week, not even a week ago, so we'll get to these subjects in a moment, but just for fun when we're on this subject, I fasted for six days. Just water, which goes through a process during fasting, which we'll talk about [14:32:8] ______ where your body literally eats all the bad stuff, but then it raises up its stem cells naturally. So then I fasted for six days, I get up my stem cells to a naturally really high point, then I went into Dr. Harry, and I injected more of my own stem cells because I had them harvested, like you did, and then more of the exosomes. And I tell you, it was like an absolute high for two days. That's all I can tell you.Ben: You mean you got them injected systemically, like into your blood?
Dr. Pompa: I did, I got them into my blood, and because I figured my own stem cells, your body during a fast is releasing all of these incredibly healing matrix is and others rising up it's own stem cells and exosomes. So I figured I'm going to just take it to the next level, and that's what I did. I'm sure I'm the only one in the world that's actually injected exosomes after a fast like that.
Ben: Six days, six days you fasted. You're one of the few guys I know who not only fasts regularly, and legitimately does. Like a lot of people talk about fasting, but when I go and stay with you, you legitimately fast. Like I'm at your house sometimes, and you're like out mountain biking and walking, and you just have these big dinners at the end of the day a lot of times or small snacks throughout the day and then a big dinner at the end of the day. There's one other guy I know who does this, Todd White from Dry Farm Wines. He's another guy who I'll hang out with sometimes. And he just goes the whole day, then at the very end of the day, he has like a bottle of wine, a whole bottle of his special… it’s low sugar, low alcohol, almost like a keto-wine. Very high in antioxidants and then he just has this amazing, scrumptious meal at the end of the day. Now I want to actually talk a little bit about fasting with you and also this concept of diet variation of feast famine cycle, but when you're doing something like a six-day fast to increase the viability of your own stem cells and prepare your body to better absorb exosomes and stem cells that you actually underwent recently, what does a six-day fast look like for you? We've got time, so just go ahead and fill us in on your strategies, on extra supplements you take, how you keep your appetite satiated, tips for people who want to do something like a six-day fast?
Dr. Pompa: Well you know, years ago, I was training and fasting, so this isn’t that kind of new now. I would say it's gotten more popular, but I've been doing this fasting for a long time, you know? And there's a lot of myths about fasting, like you lose viable muscle. It's simply not true. You know you lose bad muscle, you lose bad cells. There's a scientist named Valter Longo who's made fasting more popular, and he calls it a fasting mimicking diet which is even just what I would referred more to as a partial fast, but he has a very specific foods-you-eat, etcetera, and he's trademarked the name Fasting Mimicking Diet. But the point is this, it's that years ago, they thought okay, when you're fasting, your immune system gets slower because you're losing white blood cells. Your white blood cells dropped significantly, and you're losing muscle. These are bad things about fasting. Well as it turns out, what new science shows is that massive drop in white blood cells that we actually see. It is a darn good thing, here's why.
Because of this autophagy that I explained where the body will literally eat all of the bad proteins, DNA, muscle, whatever it needs to get these amino acids, it will eat the bad tissue, and in this case, they realize that the body was eating the mature, or I would say overly mature, hyperactive white blood cells, the ones that overreact, drive autoimmune allergies, asthma. I mean I could go down the list, food sensitivities. You know these blood cells are overreacting, they're too sensitive, so you realize that the innate intelligence in your body that knows best literally was eating those blood cells. Now here's the best part.
What they realize was is that the body fires up the stem cells, and then it replaces those white blood cells with new, more naive, as he puts it in his literature, blood cells that are not hyperactive. So that's why we're able to down regulate autoimmune gut issues, and there are really so many different autoimmune, hypersensitivity reactions with fasting because you're getting rid of these hyperactive cells. So by the way, the same thing happens in muscle. You're not losing valuable muscle, you're actually just losing bad muscle that's not recovering anymore. Bad DNA, bad proteins, and then the stem cells are replacing the proteins. So I challenge my son, and he's a four-percent body fat guy, young stud, right?
Ben: Wait, which son was this?
Dr. Pompa: Well both, actually. There was Isaac, he's probably about 17, he's 16 maybe at that time, and then my son Daniel. You know both of them actually, so they fasted, and I said a month later, you'll actually put muscle on, you'll gain muscle. Mark my words. And sure enough, in both of them, that's exactly what happened. Because they were like well, “if I fast, I'm going to lose all my gains.” I said, “no, you'll lose a certain amount of weight, and in Isaac's case, I said you'll probably lose about eight pounds, but watch what happens a month from now.” Because of the stem cells replacing the bad proteins, and now you'll recover better, and therefore, gain muscles. So actually, we use it clinically now. I train hundreds of doctors around the country on these protocols which we're going to talk about, these feast famine cycles, fasting etcetera, but we utilize this to get people to gain weight, believe it or not, and get people obviously at oftentimes, to lose weight, but more for health to regulate autoimmunity, etcetera. So it's a tool that we could never really help the people that we help.
Ben: Yeah, it's interesting because there's another guy I know, Sal Di Stefano, who's been on a podcast before. He's with the Mind Pump group, and he's another guy who has told me that when he fasts, he'll go for a certain period of time. He's swole, he's a big dude and muscular, and he'll fast for several days, lose a little bit of weight and then just gain a bunch of muscle afterwards because the body, all of a sudden, becomes more sensitive to anabolic stimulus. It's very interesting, it's almost counter-intuitive, and I think probably the biggest mistake that a lot of people make is they, when they're going through the fasting period, exercise a little bit too much or stress out the body too much. I think fasting pairs well with sauna, with some cold-hot thermogenesis like hot-cold contrast saunas mixed with cold baths. Easy walks in the sunshine, swims, yoga, stuff like that, and then you get back into the hard anabolic eccentric training or weight-bearing training, at least as far as hard training is concerned after the fast.
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, no you're right. I don't even want to leave that point because people, you can over-exercise during fasting, and people who have health challenges, we want to use that energy for healing, and very healthy people, you and I could exercise during a fast. But even myself, I don't go as hard as I would normally would go. I take it easy and I want to conserve my energy and use it towards the healing process, but you're right, many people over exercise. So you know when I water fast, and there's different types of fasts. But when I pure water fast, there's very few supplements that I take, and I always only ever take a supplement that doesn't push the body one way or another. So I don't take herbals, I'll take maybe some electrolytes, but typically, I'll just do some sea salt and typically, I don't even need that, but many people do because you lose a lot of glycogen, storage sugar, and therefore you lose a lot of water and therefore you lose a lot of electrolytes. So the first three days of a fast, taking in extra sea salt, two to four grams a day, or some straight electrolytes without sugar. You don't want sugar, I don't drink coffee during an extended fast, I don't drink tea. Again, I just want to do water, and very few supplements like you said, maybe some magnesium if someone's getting cramps. If someone's getting some detox symptoms, there's a product called Bind that we would allow that just stays in the gut, so it doesn't go systemic.
Ben: Is Bind like an activated charcoal?
Dr. Pompa: There's four different types of binders in it. One of them is a super-activated carbon that we test because most carbon is toxic, but yes. There's four different types of binders in there from humates, volvates and there's another binder from Africa, plus the carbon, and it just sits in the gut, however. It doesn't leave the gut, so it doesn't interfere with the fast.
Ben: Okay, so you take that, and then you also said you take CytoDetox?
Dr. Pompa: But I don't typically take the Bind. If I decide to do a coffee enema during the fast, then I would take the Bind ‘cause I like to take Bind thirty minutes before coffee enema. It sits in the gut, acts as a catcher's mitt, so when you dump your toxic bile, and that's what a coffee enema actually does, then it has a catcher's mitt, so you don't auto-intoxicate or reabsorb. But otherwise, I don't get symptoms when I fast. I feel absolutely amazing. As a matter of fact, this fast, I had so much energy. I typically only require like five-hour sleep when I’m fasting, and I am going all day. I literally get two week’s worth of work done in one week. I mean, it's extraordinary, so I don't need them, and however, I just took about 10,000 people on my Facebook through a fast. I think the record as far as how many people are actually fasting with this, and so many people get different symptoms.
Ben: It's a lot of hungry people.
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, well they get a lot of detox symptoms. I mean their fat is holding onto many toxins and they let them go, so Bind would help them. And then even the CytoDetox which is it goes more systemic, and it could knockdown a lot of the symptoms.
Ben: Yeah, I actually want to ask you about the CytoDetox 'cause you gave me the formula for that the last time I was at your house, and I want to ask you about it, but before we get off this topic of Bind, I know we sound like a couple of complete health freaks talking here to people who aren't familiar with this stuff, but I do a coffee enema. Like every Wednesday morning, I do a coffee enema. It's like my beauty morning. I do a clay mask to detox my face, and I jump up and down the trampoline and I do an infrared sauna, and it's like I was telling my wife this morning 'cause it's actually Wednesday when we're recording this. At Wednesdays, I feel absolutely amazing because I'm clean as a whistle, I'm fully detoxed, and everything just feels clear, like a complete clean slate every Wednesday. I just push the reboot button on my body with the sauna and the clay mask and the coffee enema, but I'm curious about this Bind stuff 'cause I haven't used that before. Where do you get it? Is this a supplement that you make? Is this something you can get on Amazon? Where do you find this Bind stuff?
Dr. Pompa: It's a fourth generation product, years ago. I constructed it out of special carbon and different binders and each just keeps going to the next level of how we make the product better, because it's a cornerstone product of the detox. If you're auto-intoxicated, most of your toxins end up in your liver, and that's where your bile is, and so they bind up the bile, and you use bile to digest fats so it gets dumped into the gut. But the problem is the body is designed to reabsorb the bile, so it brings the toxins around. This grabs that toxic bio-complex and pull it out of the body so you don't reabsorb. So it's a cornerstone for what we do, and then that CytoDetox really works more at the cellular level, it brings the toxins to the liver and out of the body.
Ben: Okay, so Bind would be for more of the gut to keep re-absorption from occurring, and then the CytoDetox would be more for the cells. Let's make sure you have it on your site, you could sell it on your site. We'll make sure you have Bind, you sell it from your sites.
Ben: Alright, we'll talk later, and what I'll do is I'll just get a link and a code for people if they just go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/feastfamine 'cause I want to get this for myself to try for this weekly Wednesday cleanup that I do on my own body, but then this CytoDetox stuff, fill me in on how that works and also this new formula because I used to use this little white bottle that you give me, and now the last time I was in Park City, you gave me a couple of bottles. It's like this little tasty little dropper bottle. It tastes almost like an orange cream-sickle, but apparently, it's even more effective than whatever you were making before?
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, the original CytoDetox which we've used for a group of doctors, and it's sold to practitioners. But Ben, you actually have an ability to sell it as well, but it's a very strong product, and the original one was as well. There's these little particles in there called [27:52] ______, not that that's important. But they have the ability to cross into the membranes and into the cell, and that's where the magic happens because really detox has to be at the cellular level for really people to feel better, for people to actually really detox.
Ben: A lot of people don't realize that, that when you take a bunch of cilantro and charcoal and chlorella, I learned this from you, a lot of times, and not only do you not detoxify the actual cell because a lot of that isn't getting into the cell membrane, but in many cases, it can just allow toxins to flow freely through the body and wind up in the brain where they create mad hatter's disease and brain fog. They can damage neural tissue.
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, absolutely, and that's why using real binders is magic, and that's the key. So the CytoDetox goes into the cell, and by the way, that's where you have to detox. I mean there's nothing wrong with a colon cleanse, you and I both just said that we do coffee enemas. All of that is great because it opens up the downstream pathway, but if you don't get to the cell, you won't get well, and if you don't detox the cell, you're not going to get well. So the CytoDetox goes into those precious membranes in to the cell where we have to get the toxins out. Now the new formula that you asked me about, so the old one was just the small particles that would go into the cell membrane. But one of my visions a couple of years ago was to broaden the span of particles that actually have bigger ones and not just smaller ones. So therefore, some of them would stay outside of the cell and again, act as catcher's mitts, just kind of like the Bind product in the gut. The reason is it's because most people that get symptoms are in real detox, it's because toxins are redistributing, recirculating. So I wanted to have bigger particles that don't enter into the cell, that clean up, literally mop up the toxins, so here is the challenge. The challenge was is the bigger particles don't get past the gut, so the new one is liposome, so we have liposome particles to get the small ones and the big ones across the gut. The small ones will enter the cell, the bigger ones will stay out, and then also I talked about I like multiple types of binders because they bind very differently. There's fulvates also in this product, which typically don't leave the gut, but because the liposome brings the fulvates in. So now we have multiple binders, and we have a broad range of these particles that bind multiple different types of toxins, and it works.
Ben: When I went to Veneto with you last time, 'cause we drank a lot of wine. I think we had like nine of us there in the table and maybe went through seven, eight bottles of wine. You know, it's a decent amount. Good Italian imported wines, you had a couple of bottles of CytoDetox out in your kitchen counter before we left and I've been doing this since I saw you doing it, just whenever I have alcohol in general, 'cause you know even with good alcohol, it's still got some toxins in it. I mentioned Todd White from Dry Farm Wines earlier, I also used this wine called FitVine Wine that filters out I think the sixty-plus different toxins that are allowed in wine nowadays, and so if you use a biodynamic, really fine microfiltration on a wine, you get rid of a lot of these toxins. Regardless, you get acetaldehyde, you get some amount of toxins from the alcohol. Would CytoDetox be something that you could use as like a daily detox rather than going through let's say like a full-on, one month out of the year complete full-on detox? Could you use CytoDetox daily, for example on the days that you're drinking or the days that you're flying on airplanes, etcetera?
Dr. Pompa: We went there with the UAC, Ultimate Achiever's Club, a group of doctors and we go to Napa every year, and we bring CytoDetox because it's glyphosate. I mean the Napa wines, no matter what because they don't dry farm which they irrigate. Dry farm means that the vines go deep and find moisture down deep. However, most of the Napa wines are irrigated, and therefore it brings the glyphosate. That's the chemical that they're using as an herbicide, pesticide, and it's devastating to our gut anyways. We use the CytoDetox to avoid being exposed to that 'cause it does. It binds it, so we keep ourselves clean that way, and the alcohol helps with the hangover, man. I mean the acetaldehydes, you know that's what creates the dang hangover, and it also has an effect on that.
Ben: Yeah, okay. So the CytoDetox, about one dropper full, you could do that, for example, in the morning and in the evening?
Dr. Pompa: Now, that's exactly right.
Ben: Alright. So back to your six-day fast, you're basically doing the Bind, you're doing the water and you're doing the CytoDetox?
Dr. Pompa: Yeah.
Ben: Any minerals or electrolytes?
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, I mean you don't have to do that, right? Some people can just purely water fast, however, what you just said, that little protocol absolutely works magic for down regulating the symptoms that could come with fasting. There's another product that we actually developed because, when you're fasting, a lot of very toxic people produce something called hydroxy free radicals. It makes you feel like crap, simply put, so hydrogen molecules, which you know about these, they down regulate the hydroxy free radicals at present fasting. So the product's called Fastonic, you could also sell that on your site as well, put that in the show notes, but those are typically the only products we would ever take during a fast. It's about water, and that's as simple as it gets. Everyone else is, so what else can I do during the fast? What else can I eat or take? Nope, that's just it, and again, that's a pure water fast we're talking about.
Ben: Okay, so that stuff's called Fast Detox?
Dr. Pompa: Fastonic is the other one that down regulates the hydroxy free radicals. So fastonic, it's a tonic, fastonic.
Ben: Okay, so basically, like a one-two-three combo for what you're fasting would be Bind, CytoDetox, Fastonic, take some minerals and then drink some water.
Dr. Pompa: There you go.
Ben: Okay, when you're drinking water in your own home, do you use some kind of special water filtration system?
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, I mean I have a whole house like you do, and then I also have just an RO unit, just to make sure at the point of service that I'm filtering out anything that could possible get by. You know, people always ask that, what kind of water can I fast with? You know, I always say find a good clean water that you like the taste of, and definitely stick to glass. If you're buying bottled water, you could find a really good spring water that you absolutely love. Find one you love because that's what you're going to be enjoying, so hot water actually, or warm water, sipping it with a little salt in it can actually curb appetite. The Chinese would do that just to curb appetite, so when you're fasting on day three, day four, that warm water, it's just magic, and then here's the other question I get. Can I drink sparkling water? Yes, but it could be a little irritating for some people, so I wouldn't exclusively do that, but a little bit would be fine. Then here's the other question I get, how much water do I drink?, and my answer's going to be a little surprising for most, drink when you're thirsty. The body's that smart, so it really knows when to tell you to drink more water when it needs it. Drinking too much water can actually work against you, it can actually work against your kidneys in some of your detox.
Ben: What do you mean it can work against your kidneys?
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, meaning that you can actually drink too much water, it'll actually strain your kidneys and your kidney function. So your body is very intelligent, if you're out exercising on a hundred degrees, I would recommend drinking before you're thirsty. Or when you're in a fasting state, your innate intelligence is at a very, very high level, and it knows exactly what it needs to have and you will become thirsty. So don't push it.
So there's a little experiment, there's something called a dry fast where you don't drink water at all, and there's a dry fast where you’re literally not even showering because the innate intelligence would pull moisture from the shower, but so I just said you know what? I'm going to drink when I was thirsty. I actually went two days without water at all, before I got thirsty, and here's what happens. You actually get a three-to-one autophagy with a dry fast, meaning you're going to eat more SPAD cells, why? Because your body needs water, right? So where's it going to get it? It's going to get it from your fat cells primarily.
Ben: Because beta-oxidation frees up water, huh?
Dr. Pompa: Exactly, so it's that smart. So we know that people want to dry fast. Look, most dry fasts, you don't try it at home. I mean meaning that going under some supervision, I mean there's some things that you have to know, but the point is that the body is that smart, and drink when you're thirsty and that's the main point.
Ben: Okay, so this dry fasting basically, that simply involves just barely drinking anything at all during the actual fast?
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, no exactly. And again, my son dry fasted for almost four days. I had a client of mine, I do all virtual coaching, so I have to say client, not patient. But he went 12 days without food or one sip of water. Every time he tried to sip water, he vomited, threw up. He was that sick, so he didn't choose to dry fast, but literally, he went 12 days without food or water. And it actually ended up to be the thing that fixed him. I was at a seminar once, and I was there with Joe Mercola, who I've actually convinced about fasting now. So he is very into fasting now, but there was a woman at one of the seminars that was on day eight of a dry fast. Literally no water, not even a sip, which there's a whole community of these dry fasts. Again I would not recommend that, I would recommend many fasts before you would even attempt. However, I live in Utah, I'm not Mormon. Part of the Mormon culture here actually dry fast one day, 24 hours, once a month. I didn't even know that.
But anyways, it's pretty unique that we have a whole culture that we can learn from, but my doctors that I coach, we all experimented with dry fasting our cells, and some of the people did one day, two days, three days, etcetera, and the results were across the board. Some people got a lot of symptoms, some people it was very easy for, so very interesting.
Ben: Okay, so with the water, one thing that I wanted to return to real quick before we keep going, 'cause I want to ask about this concept of a feast famine cycle and this diet variation that you were talking to me about a little bit at your house. I still want to be able to wrap my head around, but one thing, you said that you use both a whole house filtration, but then also reverse osmosis? What do you mean by that?
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, a point of service. You know I just pushes the water obviously through a membrane.
Ben: Point of service meaning like at the level where the water's actually entering your home, so that's in your shower, in your kitchen sink, everything it's going through are reverse osmosis?
Dr. Pompa: No, it's going through the whole house system which is a KDF, and then it has some carbon and other filters.
Ben: Okay, so it's a carbon filter. So you go through like a whole house carbon filter which means you filter out a lot of toxins, but you retain some of the minerals, and then you also have reverse osmosis?
Dr. Pompa: Correct, and then also add the point of service where I actually fill my water glass up, so to speak, then have an RO unit a well.
Ben: Oh okay, I gotcha. So for example, when you shower at your house, you're showering in water that's gone through that whole house carbon filtration, but then the water that you're drinking from like your main faucet in your kitchen, that's reverse osmosis?
Dr. Pompa: Correct, there's another. The whole house has a KDF, it's a different technology plus the carbon. Yeah, so whole house filtration plus what I drink.
Ben: Okay, I'll hunt down some links to this for those of you listening in, and I'll just link to everything that we're talking about over at bengreenfieldfitness.com/feastfamine, so that you can kind of check out some of these filters and stuff. I'll do some research and link for you guys and get some information from Dan, too, if you guys want to set up your house filtration system. ‘Cause I've stayed at Dan's house, and he, like me, has converted into no WiFi, no Bluetooth, hardwired, Ethernet everywhere, the annoying cables 'cause you can't get on the internet unless you plug it to the wall. So he's got his own little healthy home going on down there.
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So anyways, talk to me about this feast famine cycle and diet variation. I don't know if they're the same thing. Do they work pretty well to talk about both at one stand?
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, they do.
Ben: Okay, alright. Fill me in, let's take a deep dive into this stuff.
Dr. Pompa: Well you know, let's start here because they're seasonal, diet variation. There's monthly and there's weekly, and we'll cover them all, and you have these hardcore people on both sides of the diet spectrum. You have your vegans, your vegetarians and then on the other side are your plant-based people, I should say. And then on this side, you have your Paleo and the T-Rex diet, the all-carnivore diet, the Keto people. And I'll tell you, when you talk to these people, they're very passionate about how this particular diet changed their world, changed their life, and so therefore, they're going to try to convince everyone that their diet's right. You know, I have been down those roads, but my diet variation is very different because basically it's saying hey, you're alright because what I believe is that every ancient culture, and I've been to many. Every ancient culture, they tap times where they're in all of those different diets. As a matter of fact, the Hadza people were considered one of the healthiest, long-living people in history. When the Brits would come there in the summer, they thought they were vegetarians. What they missed was they left during the harsh winters, and they were in a hardcore ketosis diet. Every spring, it's known as fasting spring with that culture, and because every spring they would fast, probably because they were in between food supplies. However, it became part of the culture, and now recognized for why the culture actually lived as long healthy as they did. It was more about the fast than it was even when they eating.
So the diet variation principle is this, it really is about changing your diet, and it's the hormone optimization that occurs when you are forced to change your diet via the adaptation that is needed to make the change. Therefore, it optimizes certain hormones that we benefit from every time we change our diets. So it's not about one diet, the magic is the switch. So I move in and out of ketonic states, so I'm in and out of ketosis. I may be in it for two months, three months, maybe even two weeks, and then I'll go to maybe even a plant-based diet for a period of time or a higher, healthy carbohydrate diet for a period of time. The bottom line is no culture ever stayed in a ketosis diet or even a Paleo diet. The moment they had healthy carbs, they started eating them, even the Eskimos. So that's a seasonal variation, but there's also monthly and weekly. So let's just stop there, and we'll kind of discuss that before we move onto these other strategies, and by the way, I'll say this. Who is this for and why?
It's said that women shouldn't do low-carb diets too long or ketosis, thyroid people, adrenal people or those of you listening and said I have tried ketosis. I didn't feel good or I didn't lose weight or I couldn't even get into ketosis. So all of you people listen because this whole strategy is being used by hundreds of us doctors around the country with amazing success, and I believe even for people who want to live long healthy, this is the way to do it.
Ben: Okay, so stopping there with the seasonal diet variation, and I agree with you. It's very difficult to find any long living population on the face of the planet that eats strictly vegetables or eat strictly ketosis. You know people ask me about why ketosis is the ultimate diet, well it's not. Name me one blue zone for example that's pure strict ketosis all year long, periods when you go to ketosis, and usually, it's not from sucking down exogenous ketones and putting butter in your coffee. Usually it's from fasting when you're getting into that state, but anyways though, so this idea of seasonal variation, how do you know which seasons what to eat?
Dr. Pompa: Well look, I mean you can look around you and say what's right, right? And then that's a good variation. I mean that's a really good way to do it, and I think there's magic in that, and people even make lists of foods on the internet on like these are the seasonal eating things in your area. I mean it's really easy to find now, so that's one way. However, even without that, because my schedule's kind of odd and I travel a lot like you, so I'm forced to vary now because of the environmental changes like the different tribes. One of the tribes that I visited, they were always in different drought and environmental pressures that forced them to change.
For me, travelling, so when I went to Italy, yeah I ate like the Italians. When I went to Israel, I eat like the Israelis. You know, so those were forced changes. So I oftentimes will be in a diet for two months, and then I'll move out into another diet, simply out of boredom sometimes, but here's what I noted. When I make the change, it's like I immediately get leaner, I immediately get more muscular without doing anything except changing my diet. All of a sudden now, I'm eating higher carbohydrate diets, and I'm ripped. I'll tell you, Ben, it happened to me okay. I was hardcore in ketosis probably around a year or so, and I started getting some chub on my belly. You know, being in my 50s, most people would think it's age, but that was not normal for me 'cause when I went into ketosis, I got extremely lean at work very well. My energy, everything was awesome.
Now I did what most people would do, so I was probably 50, 60 carbs a day, no problem and staying in ketosis, no problem. So I lower it to 30, then I realized it's not going away. I went down to 10 grams of carbs a day or less, and I realized it was getting worse. My belly was getting worse, and then I noticed I was actually losing muscle, so what did I do? I started researching like many, and I even found that ketosis long term can cause insulin resistance and store fat, lose muscle, but I realize wait a minute. It's actually not insulin resistance like diabetics, it's that the fact is, here's what happens, very simply. The body is so smart, when you go and do this low-carb ketosis diet, you're forcing the cells to use fat as energy as its major energy, right? Just cells can only use sugar or fat, so when we force it to use mostly fat, eventually all it wants to do is survive and hold onto it's fuel source in case it needs it. So what does it do? It starts to slow down fat metabolism because, god-forbid, it uses all of the fats, so it's slows it down. It becomes more efficient at using fats, so here's the example. You're in the middle of Alaska, or where Ben lives, and you're in a cabin in the heart of a really hard winter, and your only fuel source is the stack of wood outside. And in the beginning, you're using your wood, you're keeping your little cabin at 75 degrees feeling great. The winter now is getting long and hard, and you look out and your wood supply, your only source of fuel is diminishing, dwindling, and so what are you going to do?
You're not going to burn more fat, or wood in this case. You're going to start burning less and less, and then you're going to be happy. It's 60 degrees because now you're thinking of survival. This is what your body's doing, this is what your metabolism's doing, and so it starts to burn less and the wood supply is getting less. Now you have a friend that comes by, and he's checking on you and he sees that your wood supply's down, and he has so much he dumps you more and says here, man, I've got plenty. Now what are you going to do, Ben? You're going to start burning the fuel again, you're going to start burning fat up again. That's what these feast days, as we're talking about feast famine. So now what I learned was when I threw carbohydrates at myself, all of a sudden, two days later, I looked down and I'm leaner. As a matter of fact, my ketones even went up. How is that possible? Because my body said, man, let's just start burning the fuel, and we fire up the fat-burning again, so we need feast days. Just like any ancient culture would, to remind our body it's not starving, so that's kind of where I got this. And then one more thing, just one more example.
So I had a really difficult client who was not losing weight in ketosis, okay? I had her on a very healthy diet, plant-based, still low-carb and wasn’t losing weight there either. I moved her into ketosis, she couldn't even get into ketosis, okay? She was not burning fat. I did that for three months, and then I moved her back on the diet that I had her on prior, and all of a sudden, she goes back on that diet and she starts losing weight. I'm like how is that possible? It stopped, she lost maybe eight or ten pounds, and it stopped. So I kept her on that diet for a few more months, and I moved her back into ketosis. Low and behold, now she goes into ketosis, and she actually lost some weight in ketosis. Same thing happened to Marilyn, my wife who you know. She struggled, like many women, to get into ketosis really solid. She's perimenopause, so that probably has something to do with it. By the way, this is who this works for really well, so likewise, I moved her out of ketosis, and then I put her on another diet, and then three months later, moved her back in and bravo, she got into ketosis in a much deeper level. That switch for my wife over the last whatever it was, a few years ago now, but overall, a year's time made her so metabolically flexible, meaning she can now move in and out of ketosis, and she can get into ketosis in just two days.
Ben: This is interesting, you know, when you look at this from an ancestral standpoint and you look at a lot of these tribes, I know even Native American tribes that you certainly studied a lot have, when you investigate these indigenous tribes, in the winter a lot of times, they become fat-adapted, they shift to ketosis. For example, I think it's the sheep-eaters of Wyoming I've seen you talk about where they adapted their diet by eating big-horned sheep, as their mainstay for winter survival. But then in the summer, they would eat roots and berries and prickly pears and beans and mesquite pods and mustard seeds and pumpkins and gourds and what would be considered like a higher carbohydrate diet, and in many cases, also working resistant starches so that they produce a lot of short-chained fatty acids to allow them to maintain the fat metabolism, and something else that's important to note here is that it makes sense from a pure metabolic standpoint. This is something I learned a long time ago when I interviewed the author of “Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar and Survival”, I think it's called? T.S. Wiley, and she talked about how when your Vitamin-D levels rise in the summer, you become more insulin sensitive and more hormone sensitive, so during the summer when a lot of these more carbohydrate or fructose-rich food or squashes, etcetera, are growing, your body is able to better metabolically handle those.
The other thing I wanted to ask you about, in addition to what we can gather from observing these indigenous populations and the way that their diets vary is the idea in ayurvedic medicine. The ayurvedic diets, for example, of switching to hot, warming, spicy soups and stews and heated foods and, for example, the fall in the winter versus cooling foods in the summer. Have you looked much into the ayurvedic concepts that could be tied into this?
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, no I think they are big into the seasonal eating, and that's basically what they're saying is hey look, there's times to eat certain foods. As a matter of fact, what we've learned is that our microbiome actually changes seasonally, and therefore it makes even us crave certain foods more, right? You know, their principle is grains should be eaten in the fall because what happens is your microbiome shifts, and you actually have the highest level of enzymes needed to break down these really hard proteins like gluten. So for three months of the year, we just happen to have these high levels of these certain enzymes needed to break down grain. Go figure, grains harvested in the fall. However today, it's harvested all through the year, and people eat grain throughout the year which again is another explanation for why people have trouble with gluten, because you simply don't have the ability to digest it well enough through certain times of the year. You know, here's the cool thing, when you look at it, at often times, it shifts the microbiome. There's a theory that the position of the sun literally has a lot to do with it, so it's not just the weather, the temperature, etcetera, but literally where the sun is, and the sky can literally change our bodies, and our microbiome, it has an effect on our bacteria which has an effect on our enzymes and what foods we should eat more of and less of. So there's a heck of a principle there.
Ben: Do you know what the best book I ever read I think is on this idea of seasonal variation and what to eat and when? That's a little bit more as we've kind of talked about indigenous population and kind of ancestral tribe-based versus ayurvedic-based?
Dr: Pompa: Was it John Dillard's book.
Ben: No, John Douillard's book is good, he's the guy who wrote the book “Mind, Body, Sport”, but there's this guy who flies under the radar, he was on my podcast two years ago. He hails from the first nations in Canada, and he grew up on a diet of his indigenous ancestors, meaning he was eating wild organ meats from the animals he hunted and feasting on the wild salmon that he caught, and he learned from the first nation's people, their entire medicine wheel, their entire seasonal diet that they follow, he's a very interesting guy. He's a professional martial artist, he's on my radar, somebody I want to travel up to Canada 'cause it'll only be about a six-hour drive for me to go visit with my kids for them to kind of see what a version of it, like a mix between a Chinese medical practitioner and a first nation's physician is like. But he was not only in my podcast, and if you guys go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/feastfamine, I will link to my podcast with them, but he wrote a book. You can't even get it on Amazon, it's only on his website, and I've got a copy here in my office. It's called “Returning To An Ancestral Diet”, amazing read. You'd dig this one, Dan, and it digs into in really good detail a lot of these concepts. You know if you wanted to know hey, spring eat this and summer eat this and in winter eat this. He's also a big proponent of a cannabis-based medicine, and so he's got a lot of things going for him, as far as being like a healer and a fighter and a good source of knowledge, so he would be a cool guy for you to talk to as well, Dr. Michael Smith up in Canada.
Dr: Pompa: Yeah, if you have a connection, I would love to interview him on my podcast as well.
Ben: Yeah, I'll connect you guys after this show, and I'll put a link in the show notes. So one of the things that you eluded to, before we took a dive into seasonal variation was how this looks like from a weekly variation standpoint, and I think the way that you describe it to me was five-one-one. Can you go into that?
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, exactly. Let's talk about why this actually works, and the five-one-one will even make more sense, so you know, everything is about adaptation. The body just wants to survive, and it does it via adaptation, so I think your viewers can understand this probably the best. Look, when you first start a workout routine, you get these amazing results, right? Or if you haven't worked out a lot, you start working out. Everybody gets results, and then it plateaus and then you're watching late night TV and you see the new thing, right? Maybe it's the TRX or who knows, right? And you get it, and you start doing this new thing and you think oh my gosh, this is the bomb. I'm losing weight again, I feel better, look at the muscles I got right under, but then it plateaus again, and then you switch to the next thing. The point is it's not the exercise, it's the change, it’s the adaptation. When the body switch to a new thing, you know how it is Ben, when you go to a new gym, you get a better workout. My gosh, it's because the angles are different, why? The body had to adapt, and it's the adaptation that creates the growth, it's the adaptation that creates the fitness.
So if you stopped forcing your body to adapt, you're not going to get fit, right? So you have to force adaptation, that's what these dietary changes do. So feast famine cycles, when you look at it weekly, is where the magic is. Every time, and I'm writing a book on it right now, so I have a lot of sites on this, but every time we switch diets, we force the body to adapt to the microbiome and also hormonally. So growth hormone actually rises, and so does norepinephrine. By the way, both of those rise when you switch your exercise as well, but what happens is once it adapts, then you still get the benefits of the growth hormone. I ended up with the norepinephrine which has this massive anti-inflammatory effect, and the norepinephrine drives all these other hormones that benefit our brain and our bodies and our cells.
So the change of diet forces the adaptation, so feast famine. It's funny because in this book, I just found this is probably three days ago. I just found a study, they compared an all fat diet throughout the week, okay? And so it was just high-fat, low-carb continually everyday. Then they also looked at a low-fat diet every day of the week, and then they did what they called alternating the diet, so they would do one day, say Monday where they did a high-fat, low-carb, and then on Tuesday, they eat one meal. That was the fast, okay? The next day, high-fat, low-carb again. That was the feast. The next day, one meal fast, next day… so they alternated. Well put it this way, the alternating diet outperformed the high-fat, low-carb diet easily, and it also outperformed the low-fat everyday as well. The alternate, and they explained it, it's because it raises this norepinephrine, it creates an adaptation which ultimately creates a hormone optimization. The reason why people can't stay lean, be lean is more about hormones than it is about the foods that you're eating.
So therefore, how do we optimize our hormones for muscle gain, for leanness, for health, for energy, for brains to work better? We have to drive adaptation, and therefore we do it by changing our diet more frequently. So that's the concept, so the five-one-one we start people on is where they'll do five days of a regular diet or intermittent fasting with maybe you eat in a six-hour window or an eight hour window. And then one day, you pick and just fast. Either don't eat at all, or eat one meal just like in the study, and then in the next day, it doesn't have to be the next day. This could be in completely separate days, in one day where you feast. That's my Saturday, so I will eat high healthy carbs, I would go to my favorite Italian restaurant, that's the one that reminds our body it's not starving. Then we progress it to four-two-one where we add two fasting days, and then we could even progress it further to where we add three fasting days.
So we keep progressing and along with feast famine, feast famine. Sometimes some people do better with two feast days, some people do better with three feast days. So as a doctor group, you know 'cause I train these doctors around the country, we work people up to this feast famine cycling weekly, and it works, and it works because we're forcing our body to adapt when we're driving a hormone optimization.
Ben: I really like this.
Dr: Pompa: And Ben, well you and I have done cryotherapy, right? Remember when you and I did cryo together?
Ben: Oh yeah, down in the cryotherapy clinic in Salt Lake, we did cryo, they had like a whole room with a bunch of Joovv infrared panels, and then they had these vibration platforms at the US Cryotherapy.
Dr: Pompa: So we all felt euphoric, right? After we come out of this thing, a hundred and fifty below zero and for three minutes, and we come out and we felt amazing, and we get this down-regulation of inflammation. And what did they explain? Oh it works because it raises growth hormone and norepinephrine, which drives the anti-inflammatory effect, and also norepinephrine is how your body balances seratonin and dopamine, so that's why you get the feel good effect as well, and then we went into the hot. So what were we creating, we were creating feast famine, we're creating adaptation, we're forcing an adaptation to occur, driving our hormones in a positive direction, and therefore driving a recovery to be better. No different than the diet.
Ben: So the five-one-one, to me that seems like a very simple place to start for people, just to clarify. So five days of the week, you go low-carb or keto, and then one day of the week, you choose to do a dinner-to-dinner fast, like you stop eating Saturday night at dinner and you don't eat again until Sunday's dinner, and then the remaining day of the week, let's say maybe that's a Monday, you know starting at Sunday at dinner through Monday is a feast day where you're loading back up and eating plenty of healthy carbohydrates and starches?
Dr: Pompa: Correct, yup. Exactly. Folks listening, you folks out there are like well I don't want to do the carb day. It's as important as the fast day.
Ben: Yeah, people feel guilty and they read all of this information about blood sugar swings and glycemic variability, and the trick is if you're really good on the ketogenic days and on the lower carb days, then the carbohydrates actually, your body serves as almost like this sink, like a sponge for the carbohydrates. And you also get the avoidance of a thyroid down-regulation everything that goes along with long-term caloric restriction and ketogenic dieting.
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, and by the way, here's another big point. It's said that people with adrenal and thyroid issues and perimenopausal women, hormone issues, struggle in low-carb diets, ketosis and fasting. Diet variation, feast famine cycles is the answer for you. Here's another principle why it works. You need insulin for certain hormone conversions, to make from T4 which is a stored, inactive hormone to go to T3 which is the act of thyroid hormone, you need to feel good and burn fat. Well you need insulin to make that conversion, so the lower insulin goes on a long term, low carbohydrate diet, especially if you're already struggling in that area as a perimenopausal woman of person, then you are now not making that conversion. So the moment you fire up the fuel with some carbohydrates, all of a sudden now, you're making that thyroid conversion. So we're able to get these low adrenal hormone people, thyroid people to do low-carb diets and fasting as long as we utilize this feast famine cycling. Otherwise, it doesn't work.
Ben: I really like this, so the one thing I'd throw in because I've done a lot of experimentation, and I also coach a lot of athletes and work with a lot of pro-sports teams, and obviously, you are going through a huge amount of glycolysis and pushing the body, sometimes beyond what might be natural or ancestral, and you might need an unnatural means to accomplish an unnatural end if you're a warrior or a gladiator or an athlete, and what I found in those folks is this five-one-one type of thing works really well. Like I try and do once a week, a 24-hour fast, and I restrict carbohydrates on several days of the weak. But rather than having one feast day, what I have is a feast meal at the end of every day when I'm in my heavy training cycles, meaning that I eat low-carb to no-carb the entire day, lots of plants, vegetables, some fats and then moderate amounts of protein, and then at the very end of the day after an afternoon or evening workout, so I'm even more receptive to carbohydrates, that's when I'll have red wine, dark chocolate, sweet potatoes, yams, higher caloric intake, and for the athletes, I find that for them, having to get up and do a hard charging workout in the morning, train, race, scrimmage, etcetera, that works pretty well to allow them to have the energy levels necessary.
Again, what we're talking about, people who are training hard for an hour-and-a-half plus per day, Ironman athletes, Spartan athletes, folks who are really digging deep, that's the modification I found to work really well, and that's just cycling keto, right? That's an evening re-feed, and you can still, assuming that, and you should have this, a rest day each week. A recovery day each week, that's the day you do your fast.
Dr: Pompa: Absolutely, and you know you're emptying the glycogen tank. When you're in hardcore, low-carb too long, I mean you're walking around with half your glycogen. So if you have a big event the next day, you have half your glycogen. Now so then you'll fuel it up the night before, now you're going in with full glycogen, and by the way, the low-glycogen, high-glycogen, it also creates this adaptation which creates a hormone optimization. Joe Mercola, we were at a seminar one time, and it was a cancer summit in Orlando, and he asked me about it. He had been a hardcore keto like myself, and he was losing muscle and gaining some fat, and he asked me the question. I said well, I explain the diet feast variation feast famine cycles, and that was it. Chance formed his world, I grew a part of chapter 10 in his book “Fat For Fuel” on this principle, and it worked. Bodybuilders figured it out years ago, but you can have the best of both worlds. Let me explain monthly real fast because so many ladies listening, this will transform your existence on the planet. Your relationships, your health, everything. So my wife and my son's girlfriend were having a discussion in the kitchen, and it was about their cravings the week before their period and I intuitively said listen to your innate intelligence and give into the cravings. Make it as healthy as you can, but give into the higher carbs that you're craving, and I walked into my office and I thought to myself well of course you do, and then I thought to myself well, you know, why aren't I doing this variation monthly?
So I started, and I got on my doctor training group, and I said here's what we're going to try. I think I tried it a couple of times, prior to telling them this, but I said we're going to basically put, especially women. And by the way, men, this works for you, too. The week before their period, we're going to give them the high carbs. We're going to move them out of the low-carb ketosis diet, and for one week, we're going to do high-carb, even higher calories, and low and behold, it worked. Why? The hormone conversions, insulin, obviously playing a role in thyroid hormone but also estrogen as well. We need to top the insulin to make these hormone conversions. I'm telling you, it works, so that's the monthly variation, and by the way, for those of you saying oh, man, I just can't do carbs. Protein works too, we vary even high-protein days, we vary even high-protein time. Remember when you were doing the T-Rex diet, if you will? I said, man, that's awesome.
Ben: Like when I was doing a ton of meat everyday. Not fully carnivorous, but pretty close to it?
Dr: Pompa: Right, but see there's a massive benefit from that. Now I want your listeners to understand this. I said there was two groups of people. You have your plant-based people. Those people hate a pathway called mTOR because that TOR pathway is an anabolic pathway that ages you prematurely. Bodybuilders, you all love TOR pathway. Growth hormone, all of it, man. You want to build muscle, so the key is could there be a benefit in both because the plant-based people, they get more of that autophagy pathway where your body's eating the bad cells, right? So and into fasting times, we get the autophagy. That's one pathway, so imagine that in your left hand and then your right hand is the mTOR pathway which is that anabolic build phase. My point is this, stay too long in either, it's not good. People, I've watcher people fast too long, I've watched people go low calories too long 'cause low calories will stimulate this autophagy. I've watched that happen.
As a matter of fact, there was the Biosphere Two project where they realized that if we restrict calories for 30%, we can live longer. It worked in mice, it worked in fruit flies and yeast, so they put themselves for two years. There was seven people in a biosphere and dropped their calories. Well, they absolutely, on blood work, etcetera, extended their life a little bit, but the whole project was a fail because actually they became catabolic. Their immune system was lowered, they were in autophagy too long, didn't work. On the other side, you stay in that mTOR pathway, and the studies do show that you will age prematurely and end up with inflammatory diseases. So the point I'm making is this, you can get the best of both worlds, in and out of both. High-protein for a period of time, stimulate mTOR, I promise you, and you’ll stimulate some healing. And then the other, you'll just go into a fasting state, stimulate autophagy. You'll stimulate healing and stimulate stem cells.
So the point is this feast famine cycle really represent the autophagy pathway and the mTOR pathway, and it gets the best of both worlds, and you have both sides fighting right now of which pathway is best, the point is that both are best and both can be detrimental as well.
Ben: Tell me about your kids 'cause your kids fast, that blew my mind. Tell me about how you incorporated fasting with your family, what happened to your kids when you got them into fasting and how old they were when you started getting your entire family on board with this.
Dr: Pompa: Yeah, all five of my children have fasted, most of them several times. My daughter Olivia's fasted. I can't count how many times and beyond a week she's fasted. My youngest, my fourteen year old when he was thirteen, I was preparing for a PowerPoint presentation, and there was a picture of a gal who had autoimmune, massive psoriasis, I mean a horrific looking picture, but then there was the after picture, and she was completely normal again. I was putting it in my PowerPoint, and he saw the first picture. Of course, he was interested, and he said, “oh my god, what it is I explain what it was?” And he said, “did you help her,” I said, “yeah, there's the after-picture.” “Well what did you do?” And I explained fasting and the cellular detox, right? And he had done the cellular detox and understood that, but fasting he was interested in.
It just so happened he had this little patch of psoriasis that showed up on his head, so it struck his interest, so he said I'm fat. Well he left the room, and I was like oh, that was interesting. I could see he was interested, he's a kid, I don't think he was that interested. He came back five minutes later and he said, “okay, I'm going to fast,” and I said, “okay.” “Alright, how long should I go?” I said, “you'll go at least four or five days,” so he started all on fast. I didn't think he was going to do it. Well four days later, five days later, seven days later, he ended up going. Now this was like my chubby son, so he had a little weight that he could play around with.
Ben: Yeah, I saw him the last time I was in Park City, and I was shocked, he didn't look like the same kid. Like he was lean and mean, but not in a bad way, not in like a starved Ethiopian poster child kind of way, he looks awesome.
Dr: Pompa: Yeah, no he had lost all that fat, but he fasted for twelve days, man.
Ben: Geez, kids don't do that, that's not normal. Was he just self-motivated, did this all on his own?
Dr: Pompa: All on his own. As a matter of fact, I was trying to tell him to break the fast because Marilyn and I were going away, so I'm like, Simon, come on, man. Break the fast before we leave, but he wouldn't do it. He felt amazing. I mean it was like just transformed, he's my last kid.
Ben: And your kids don't have eating disorders, by the way. We went to the Mother's Day brunch together, and they just punished stuff. They're totally foodies, so that's amazing 'cause I know people who will ride in and they'll be like oh, you're giving your kid an eating disorder, but that's not the case. I mean in a healthy scenario, and I think here's what's important. They saw their parents doing it the right way, and I find that with my kids, a lot of times rather than me talking to them or trying to convince them to do something, I just go out and do it. Like yesterday, I was kicking my own ass, running around the yard, hauling sand bags, carrying buckets, preparing for the Spartan race that my boys and I are racing this weekend. Well an hour later, as I'm inside preparing dinner, I look out the window, and my boys are carrying buckets around the yard, stopping and doing burpees, running. I didn't say a thing to them, right? They just saw dad doing it and realized that this was a good cool thing to do and in many cases, that's what it comes down to is being a good example.
Dr: Pompa: Oh man, my daughter, again, watched me fast, right? And they watch what mom and I do, and she had a concussion and when she was in Spain. It was her second concussion, she said what should I do? I said what do you think you should do? And she said fast, and I said start and she fasted for seven days, and she got through her concussion literally in a week. Torah Bright, she's a double Olympic gold medalist, and she had seven concussions, and she had been to the best of the best, and she was on Dancing on the Stars so you'd probably know who she is, but she's a snowboarder, Olympic gold medalist and now seven concussions, and she had tried everything, done everything. My cellular detox, there's a part there called Brain Phase, and the fasting transformed her world, and she gave a testimony on my Facebook about it, but it fixed her.
As a matter of fact, it put her back into competition which she didn't think she was ever going to be able to compete again, and here where I live in Park City, because I put her back in competition. She actually hit her head twice and got two more concussions, but this time, she fasted right away. Look, fasting is amazing. You know, there's seven big things that happen during a fast, an extended fast.
Number one, I talked about autophagy. The body gets rid of the bad DNA and the bad cells. Number two, is the stem cell rise that raises up and starts the healing process. When you read the testimonies of these ten thousand people we just took through a fast, it's remarkable of the things that clear up. I mean it's just absolutely remarkable. The innate intelligence knows what to eat and what to up-regulate via stem cells. The third big thing is something that I like to call energy diversion, meaning that it takes so much energy to process food, to eat food, to assimilate it, to digest it, to burn it into mitochondria, make ATP, then when you take that away, the innate intelligence has so much energy left that it literally will start to just heal things. And through a fast, you always get this weird ache, and it's like “ah, this hip, what is going on in the hip.” Meanwhile you remember back in high school you injured the hip. The body and it's innate intelligence will go back, and it will utilize that extra energy to start healing things that need to be healed. Every fast, I have something that actually starts to heal that is remarkable, like one time it was my knee. The last fast before this one was my kidneys, and they just ached for like two days, but they needed healing. So that's a big thing, your DNA, you turn off bad DNA during fasting. It's remarkable, so you down-regulate bad genes and up-regulate good genes. You change your microbiome, this is the way that we fix guts. You don't fix a gut by giving people more probiotics, but these ancient healing strategies, these famine cycles, the fasting, this is how you change the microbiome, and it'll actually fix the gut. And then lastly, you benefit from much higher levels of ketones because the ketone levels go so much higher during a fast, and that's what we use to help fix the brain and down-regulate cellular inflammation. And actually there's one more, the hormone optimization that I already talked about, that elevated growth hormone norepinephrine. Those are seven reasons why fasting changes lives.
Ben: Yeah, even the benefits of ketones themselves in terms of not just the research for treating Alzheimer's disease or staving off dementia but improving insulin sensitivity, resulting in the growth of new mitochondria, satellite-cell proliferation for anabolism. You know, a whole host of benefits of the endogenous production of ketones that you can get is pretty amazing. And granted you do get some of those benefits when you just supplement with ketones, which I do, especially for exercise but nowhere near the amount of benefit that you get from tapping into the true ancestral way, which is via fasting.
Now you talked about this fasting challenge that you did with ten thousand people. Are you going to do another one of those because I'm interested in doing it, I know a lot of people would be interested in kind of the, I guess, the accountability and also the solidarity, knowing that a whole bunch of other people are fasting along with them. Fill me in on this fasting challenge thing.
Dr: Pompa: Yeah, so it's going to be on October, the next one, and our goal is a hundred thousand, so yeah. We'll do another podcast, you and I, and we're just teaming up people. All ships rise with the tide, you know? Honestly, I educate, I bring people on like you during the fast, this last one, I brought Jason Fung on, and some other folks interview them during the Facebook live. So everyday, I do a Facebook Live and do interviews. I'm educating you all on what's happening everyday because everyday something is happening during the fast, so we kind of take it day by day, and you're right. The camaraderie that people say, “oh yeah, I experienced that, and it's magic.” You can actually go to my Facebook now and actually see all the videos I've done because there's a group called “Fasting For A Purpose”, so if you join “Fasting For A Purpose” group under announcements, it's like literally every video I did if you want to know more.
Ben: Alright, I'll put a bunch of links. If you guys go to the show notes at bengreenfieldfitness.com/feastfamine, here's what I'm going to do. I'll link to all the different things that Dan and I talked about, from Bind to CytoDetox to fastonic, the things that you can take while you're fasting, some of the water filtration systems, my interview with Dr. Michael Smith on that returning to an ancestral diet book, and after the podcast, Dan, I'll connect you with him. Some of the organic, and bio-dynamic wines I drink, other similar episodes I've done about like cellular autophagy and fasting with folks like Naomi Whittel. I'll even put the funny video of me waking up from being sedated during the stem cell surgery, and you can hear Dan's voice in the background. It's pretty funny, it's like a two-minute long video. It's hilarious.
Dr: Pompa: Practitioners and doctors watching and listening, I should say listening, Naomi Whittel, who you just spoke of, she's speaking at my November seminar that November Second, and you.
Ben: Yeah, I'm speaking there, too.
Dr: Pompa: You are running the fasting exercise where you'll be fasting or exercising in a fasting state, optimizing our hormones. So practitioners of any type and doctors, if you want to know more, we'll put a link to the seminar. Remember it's in Vegas, November Second through the Fourth.
Ben: I'm taking a note to myself to remind to get the link in there, that's for like practitioners and physicians and folks like that, right?
Dr: Pompa: Yeah, correct.
Ben: Okay, perfect, so I'll link to that as well over at bengreenfieldfitness.com/feastfamine, and then the last thing I was going to ask you, or actually I wasn't going to ask you about this, I was just going to fill folks in, Dan and I every year, we run this full detox where we take all of Dan's detox knowledge, and we combine it with an exercise program that I designed and a whole bunch of different biohacks from sauna to dry skin brushing to different kinds of smoothies that you drink to rebounding. Just like if you wanted like a done-for-you, zero-guess-work detox program, so if you want to get in on that, you can do it yourself during the year if you want to, or you can do it with a whole bunch of people, and we usually do it in January, but that's at bgdetox.com, and I'll link to that as well if you guys just don't want to memorize many URLs. Just the only one you need to go to is bengreenfieldfitness.com/feastfamine, and I'll link to that along with everything else that Dan and I talked about.
Dan, dude, we covered a ton of crap. I think we probably knocked people out with enough good information where we can call this one good and let folks visit the website if they've got follow-up questions for us 'cause I'm sure if you're listening, you have some questions. So leave them over there at bengreenfieldfitness.com/feastfamine, and either Dan or I will hop in and reply. Thanks for coming on the show, dude.
Dr: Pompa: Yeah, man. I love you, Ben. We just jive, man, we're functioning in the same world, in the same things and love the same things.
Ben: I know, I love it 'cause you practice what you preach, and your boys are little beasts, and I would love for my kids to always hang out with your son, Dan, who I think was leaving for Europe before I was hanging out with you, and we went to the gym together, and he's crushing the weights, but then he's also fasting, he's reading these wonderful, spiritual books at the table. I love what you're doing from a fatherhood standpoint, too, dude, and so kudos.
Dr: Pompa: Likewise, and I love your wife, man, just hanging with you guys.
Ben: Yeah, my wife, she left your home. The very first thing she did was she called up the Florida stem cell clinic 'cause she had been talking to your wife, Marilyn, and she's going down to the stem cell clinic in Florida to do her vaginal enhancement and stem cell cosmetic procedures. Yeah, so I think she got interested in that stuff after talking to your wife, so yeah. You're making a difference, at least in my own family's life, so keep up the good work, man.
Dr: Pompa: Likewise, hey my kids were listening to you oftentimes more than me, when it comes to exercise and things like that.
Ben: I know, I'm getting your kids swole on SARMs and all sorts of French stuff, too, so there's that. Alright, man, we'll catch up later, and again, for those of you listening in, bengreenfieldfitness.com/feastfamine. That's bengreenfieldfitness.com/feastfamine to get access to everything Dan and I talked about, and until next time, I'm Ben Greenfield along with Dr. Dan Pompa, signing out from bengreenfieldfitness.com. Have an amazing week.
Dr. Dan Pompa is one of my favorite guys to hang with.
Hailing from Park City, Utah, he is considered to be an icon in the alternative health and wellness industry, traveling across the country educating practitioners, chiropractic docs and the general public on the root causes of inflammation-driven diseases such as Weight Loss Resistance, Hypothyroid, Diabetes, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Autoimmune Disorders and other chronic conditions. He's especially smart and well-educated when it comes to fasting, ketosis and detoxification: three topics we tackle on today's show (Pompa was also a guest on one of my most comprehensive episodes on cellular toxicity).
He received his Bachelor of Science from the University of Pittsburgh and his Doctor of Chiropractic degree at Life University, graduating second in his class. His authority today, however, is rooted in his own personal battle, having overcome serious neurotoxic illness and heavy metal poisoning using the cellular detoxification strategies learned in his journey back to health.
During our discussion, you'll discover:
-What Dan experienced after the exosome and stem cell treatment in Park City, Utah…11:00
-Dan's best tips for achieving a multi-day fast, and why he fasted for six days prior to his own stem cell injections…14:15
-Which supplements to take while fasting…17:00
-What kind of water to drink while you are fasting, and why dry-fasting burns more fat…34:00
-The best way to filter the water in your house…39:00
-The insider deep dive into diet variation and the “feast/famine” cycle…44:00
-How to follow the 5-1-1 rule for knowing which days to eat carbs, which days to eat fat and which days to fast…59:30
-Why you shouldn't follow a ketogenic diet year round…1:12:15
-Why Dan's children fast and how he gets kids to fast (his son fasted for 12 days)…1:15:00
-The fasting challenge with 100,000 people that Dan will be overseeing in October…1:22:30
-And much more!
Resources from this episode:
–The November seminar with Dr. Dan Pompa and Ben Greenfield – use code BG50 at checkout
–The organic, biodynamic FitVineWine that Ben drinks – use code GREENFIELD10 for 10% discount
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