[00:00:47] Parents and Gratitude
[00:03:18] Podcast Sponsors
[00:05:54] Introducing My Dad
[00:08:07] Early Life and Childhood
[00:17:09] Finding God in Idaho
[00:26:38] Being A Firefighter to Entrepreneur
[00:35:57] Podcast Sponsors
[00:39:07] Next Businesses
[00:48:26] Exposure to Nutrition
[00:56:05] God's Love Is Manifested Through Water
[01:28:06] The Parable of The People of The Wood
[01:31:57] My Gratefulness
[01:35:17] End of Podcast
Ben: On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast.
Gary: I was looking for anything and everything I could to get me out of this lifestyle I was in. Most of what I've done, just self-motivation, figuring it out, going to wherever I needed to go to learn whatever I needed to learn, and then just doing it.
Ben: For thinking that everything could be solved with proper diet and proper movement. But unless you have the electrical part of things figured out in terms of the actual electrical and frequency structure of the human body as a battery, you're going to fight an uphill battle your entire life.
Health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show.
Hey, everybody. Hey, so I highly recommend that for today's podcast, you stick around until the very end. Don't leave early because it gets pretty powerful at the end, in my opinion, at least for me. And I would love to share what happens at the end with you and have you be a part of that. I am interviewing my dad, my dad Gary Greenfield on today's podcast. By the way, he is an expert in all things water, but has a pretty deep history in health industry and just the very interesting past. Honestly, so seldomly do many of us get in touch with our parents later in life, write a letter to our parents, connect with our parents in a deep and meaningful way. And I thought what better way to do that than to record a conversation with my father and release it to you and not have it just be some woo-woo, “I love you, dad, I love you, son” conversation back and forth, but to instead be chock-full of what I hope are really cool, practical, and actionable takeaways for you.
I do have one request for you after you listen to today's episode. Think about contacting your own mother or your own father, if they still survive, and just talk to them a little bit about how you feel about your childhood, thank them for taking care of you, for bringing you up, be grateful to them. Right? All gratefulness, no regrets, no regrets about trauma, abuse, anything like that, just full gratefulness, full love and full forgiveness. I encourage you to contact your parents. If you need any other–I guess encouragement to do this, I would also recommend that you go to YouTube and you watch a YouTube video that I will link to in the shownotes.
The name of that YouTube video is Virgil Klunder Speaks on Gratitude. Extremely powerful, and it's just a very heartwarming story of how the practice of gratitude, and especially the practice of staying connected with your parents and even writing your parents a letter or speaking with them later on in life in a very deep and meaningful way can be life-changing for them, and for you, and for the world, and for your legacy. So, I will link to that video in the shownotes. I'll link to everything that my dad and I talked about in the shownotes, and those will just all be at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/garygreenfield. That's BenGreenfieldFitness.com/garygreenfield.
Now, of course, before we jump into today's show, you do need to take advantage of the 10% discount code that I give all my listeners to the chocolatey, salty, coconutty, mouth-watering goodness that yours truly formulated as a clean way to fuel your body. It's the Kion Bar. It's the Kion Clean Energy Bar. It's a long-term stable source of energy that doesn't cause blood sugar spikes, it doesn't have any chemical cocktail in it, it doesn't have excess protein in it, it does not definitely give you whey protein farts, it's just cocoa nibs, and coconut flakes, and grass-fed gelatin, organic rice and pea protein, cocoa butter, sea salt. I feel like I'm talking like a phone-sex helper while I'm telling you all about this. But it's true. It's so good. It is like a mouth orgasm. You got to try it. It's the Kion Bar at getkion.com and use code BGF10 to grab that bar for yourself.
This podcast is also brought to you by Organifi. Now, your grandmother rocking in her rocking chair 40 years ago never would have gone to Starbucks to buy a golden milk latte. She would have tenderly blended lemon balm, and turkey tail, reishi, a little ginger, a little turmeric, and she would have made from nature a nice supportive blend for her immune system and her sleep, and yet today will rush out to the evil coffee shops to get a chemical cocktail of these golden milk [00:04:59] ______ when in fact, Organifi has produced exactly a real whole recognizable food your grandmother would have drank with her golden milk latte. But they've put it in a powder form so there's no chopping, there's no mess, there's no old-school cleanup for you. All you do is put a couple powder scoops in something like a warm glass of almond milk or coconut milk or, if you're on a diet, water. It even tastes good in water. It's called Organifi Gold. You get 20% off of this fantastically tasting golden milk elixir if you go to organifi.com/ben. That's Organifi with an “I” dot com/ben and use code BENG20 to get your 20% off.
Alright, let's go talk with my dad. Remember to talk to your own parents. Remember all the shownotes were at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/garygreenfield. This episode was recorded in my guest house out in the forest in Washington State.
Well, dad, welcome to the casa in the forest.
Gary: Thank you, Ben. It's a pleasure to be here.
Ben: It's kind of funny you've been here a lot and we have never recorded a podcast even though you were the guy who's my first exposure to health and medicine and, even as we'll probably talk about in the show today, raw foods and strange water concepts people don't know a lot about. So, I think it's high time.
Gary: Yeah. Well, that's great. I'm excited to be here, Ben.
Ben: Yeah. And honestly, for people listening, part of this too is that you the listener, you spend a lot of time listening to me and–I try not to get too emotional on this episode but there are, not to use too cross a term, loins that I was derived from that influenced and created pretty much anything that I ever put out that have touched you guys, and said loins are sitting with me right now. That might be a funny way to put it, but I made it. It seems like folks should kind of know who you are and where I came from.
Gary: Yeah. Well, let's do it. Yeah.
Ben: Alright. And then one quick housekeeping piece for everybody listening, I'll put all the shownotes for today's show over at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/garygreenfield, the name of my father, BenGreenfieldFitness.com/garygreenfield. So, dad, you have a story, and fortunately, we have time. We're out here in the guest house far removed from my house where Jessa and the boys are probably creating some smorgasbord for us to dive into after we finish. I know you came from Miami. You wound up in Idaho.
Ben: And now, you're in the health world, but how did you wind up in Idaho? How'd that all come to happen?
Gary: Yeah. Well, South Florida was the fun in sun capital of the world.
Ben: Yeah, Miami.
Gary: Yeah. Miami, and I had a lot of fun, and I was always in the sun. But eventually, that wore out because along with the fun in the sun came drugs, and drinking, and carousing, and getting into mischief as a teenager. And when I was 17 years old, my brother was killed in a gang fight. And he was 16, I was 17.
Gary: And that sobered me up. That made me realize, “Okay. There's more to life. There are consequences to our behavior.” And so, I made a decision. I was going to change my life. I was going to straighten out.
Ben: Well, before all of that, I mean, you growing up in Miami and just having access to that kind of highfalutin wealthy lifestyle, your dad, Bill, he was quite the successful entrepreneur himself, wasn't he?
Gary: Yeah, he was. He was a very good salesman. He was friends with Zig Ziglar, who is, of course, in the same business he was in originally.
Ben: It's called [00:09:40] ______ Ziglar.
Gary: Yeah. And then, Zig went from selling cookware to becoming a world-renowned motivational speaker. And your uncle Bernie even was responsible for actually bringing him into the World Arena as a motivational speaker.
Gary: So, yeah. In spite of my troublesome teenage years, my father was a tremendous influence on my life teaching me positive mental thinking, just to always look for the best in everything, to always think the best, to hope the best, to believe the best, and to give 100% at everything you do.
Ben: I remember that whenever we go down to Miami and visit his office. It was like walking into a motivational speaking museum. We have posters on the wall, not just Zig Ziglar books but–and I had no clue at the time. Most of that stuff for me just went way over my head. I wasn't really interested in it. I wasn't a Tony Robbins guy. I didn't know who Zig Ziglar was aside from he had a funny name. He was one of papa's friends. But I can imagine–you walk into my office now and it's actually somewhat similar. I've got posters decking the wall with my favorite quotes from all these different motivational speakers and my sons have access to this vast library now of all these people, Joe Dispenza, and Bruce Lipton, and Tony Robbins, and Zig Ziglar, and everybody but I can imagine what it was like growing up in a house like that.
Gary: Yeah. My dad was a hard worker. We never saw him during the week, but every Sunday, we were out on the boat fishing, skiing, diving. So, I really had quality time with him and I'm really glad that he took the time to take us along rather than hanging out with his buddies or whatever and being out there. He would take his kids along, so it was a good investment.
Ben: Well, when you were an adolescence and a teenager–so I always wondered this, I never really asked you, but obviously, I'm kind of wired up to be immersed in physical culture, and I've been that way when you saw me ever since I was a kid. I just loved–even though I was kind of a nerd and played a lot of chess, and played the violin, and I lay in bed and read for hours and hours, I also, when I wasn't doing that, was playing every sport known to man and running all over the hills. I'm just curious, I've always wanted to ask you this, like I know your brother Greg was a stellar, like a professional level athlete but–
Gary: He would have been, yes.
Ben: Yeah, he would have been. How about you?
Gary: I can remember in elementary school jogging and I didn't have any energy. I couldn't do it. What's wrong with me? It's probably my diet, maybe vaccinations, and probably chiefly diet. I don't know. Maybe genetics from my biological parents, who I never knew. But I didn't really get athletic or competitive until junior high school, and then it was all fun. I had absolutely no interest in sports. My brother and I were both in sports. He was always the top stellar athlete in everything he did from the time he's just a little boy, and I was just out there because mom and dad wanted me there and I was just going to–I just wasn't into it.
Ben: Well, you got fit at some point. And then, I know when you moved to Idaho, and we could talk about this, you wound up delving into a career that have probably a great deal of fitness requirements. But I remember even when I was still–probably my first two years of racing triathlon, we'd race in the pool and you'd still beat me, granted you grew up in water, living in water. But my memories of you when you were at least hanging with me during my adolescent years playing tennis and swimming and coming out playing soccer with me and my friends, it seemed like you could hold your own.
Gary: Yeah, yeah. The older, especially at the fire department–I mean, when I was a little kid, I wanted to be a fireman, but I thought I can't do it. I just don't have what it takes. And so, I kind of shelved it. But when I did become a fireman and I performed pretty well, that started a lifestyle of working out and lifting weights. I did it because I had to, not because I really love doing it, although I did grow into loving tennis and volleyball and sports like that, but yeah, I wasn't catching [00:14:13] ______.
Ben: You weren't a jock.
Gary: Yeah, I wasn't a jock. I knew that if I didn't work out–I didn't want to injure myself on the job, in a fire. I didn't want to run out of breath pulling somebody out of firewood. So, I knew I had to work out. I knew I had to be fit. So, I stayed that way in the entire time I was a fireman.
Ben: Yeah. Well, backpedaling a little bit, so you said you were 17 when really the world came crashing down in terms of you realizing that something had to change.
Gary: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I tried for three years to change and I did. I mean, I got my act together. I was never into school, but I got into oceanography and I absolutely loved it, and I became an honors student and–
Ben: Was that before you were 17?
Gary: No. I was in college at 17. During those three years, I found my way into the things that interested me. But I was still getting into trouble and it was really frustrating. So, at the three-year mark about 20 years old, I finally decided I got to get out of Florida.
Ben: So, you're three years into oceanography?
Gary: Yeah, three years, yeah, at general studies and then oceanography, and I went to a couple of different ocean-tech programs, one in Jensen Beach, one in Miami. And yeah, so I was learning how to be an underwater diver, underwater worker, doing biological–just anything and everything to do with the ocean.
Ben: Do you think that's genetic? I asked that, dad, because–and I tell people this, the one thing about living out here in the forest in Spokane, Washington is I crave water. The happiest I am is when I am immersed in water, when I'm free diving, when I'm spearfishing, when I'm doing open water swimming, when I'm in a triathlon. There's something about me that's magnetically drawn to water.
Gary: Yeah, I probably believe so. I mean, because you've got others, “Why aren't you a mountain climber? Why aren't you climbing cliffs?”
Ben: Yeah. And no interest like mountains do not attract me than the ocean does.
Gary: Yeah, yeah. Same for me, it's just always been in the water. Just in general, it has always been an attraction.
Ben: There's a whole book about that. I interviewed the author of it. It's called “Bluewater Deep.” I'll find it and put it in the shownotes for people listening. It's about the human craving for water and what water does to your heart rate variability, to your nervous system, to your spleen, a lot of the same properties as meditation or yoga. But I do think some people are even more hardwired to be attracted to certain elements of nature. I'm a hopeless romantic, so for me, I think there were all the people spread across the planet back in the day, and there were the forest people, and the water people, and the mountain people, and the cave people. And somewhere back there, I think we were the water people.
Gary: Yeah, yeah.
Ben: So, what happened when you were 23?
Gary: Well, at 20, that's when I decided I had to get out of Florida. I opened up an atlas. We don't have computers back then. I was reading about different areas of the country and wrote about Idaho. And the phrase that stood out was God's country. And I was Godless. I didn't have any religion and I thought, “God's country? Wow, that sounds interesting.” I mean, it's kind of naïve, but–
Ben: So, Idaho, specifically, is called God's country?
Gary: Yeah, yeah. They called it God–and I thought, “Wow, that's okay.” And they talked about the mountains and the lakes. I thought, “That's where I'm going. That's it.” So, I sold everything. I sold all my stuff. I had a Hobie Cat and a surfboard.
Ben: So, you didn't know anybody in Idaho? You just decided–
Gary: No, I didn't know anybody. It was just an adventure. And I got on the bus. But before I got on that bus, like a month before that, I actually found God. It's like I met God, and for me, it was the biggest most momentous event of my entire life–
Ben: What do you mean you found God?
Gary: Well, I found Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who represents God, who God sent to reveal himself to us.
Ben: Was this like fasting meditation, plant medicine, or was it just happened?
Gary: No. I was at the point–I was looking for anything and everything I could to get me out of this lifestyle I was in, and I did. I went through every–actually, I went to–there happened to be a convention about that same time. I'd already decided to come to Idaho but I went to this convention, and it was a New Age convention. They had every religion on the face of the earth there. And I went from one booth to the next to the next, and I was kind of an intuitive guy. I'd always been intuitive. And as I talked to each one of these representatives for each one of these booths, I thought, “This isn't it. This isn't the way. This isn't what I'm looking for.” I was looking for God. I thought I was looking for a connection. I think it's just in us because we're made–God created us, and he created us to commune with him. He created us to know him, and to experience his love, and to experience the earth which is a manifestation of his love. So, that yearning was in me but I thought, “Where is he? Who is he? How am I supposed to get to him?” And so, I was–
Ben: That's not uncommon. I've talked to a lot of people. I know a lot of people are listening. There's like that gnawing in your soul that you fill up with whatever, CrossFit or alcohol, or food, or sex, or drugs, or anything else, and the hole is never filled because human beings are meant to have a deeper spiritual connection than that. Even recently for me, I felt like a big gnawing hole in my relationship with my kids, with my wife, and only recently did I identify that it was because even though our family is already emotionally connected, we're all physically connected, Jessa and I are very sexually connected, there was not a deep spiritual connection, like we weren't eye- gazing. We weren't looking into each other's souls. We weren't considering that not only did we have this holy spirit inside us, but we were also spiritual beings walking throughout the Greenfield house all day long yet we were treating each other as purely physical beings.
And once I started to look into my wife's soul and gaze into her eyes, and River and Terran and I, we eye gaze now. Before bed at night, we just–I realize it's been like probably 10 years before I've looked deeply into the eyes of my own sons for longer than like two minutes, which is just nuts when you think about it. And the same with my wife. I know we're rabbit holing, but just little things that are way bigger than what you think, like we're sitting in bed now for five minutes and just eye gazing, and seeing each other's soul, and seeing each other's spirit, and that fills that hole somehow. And it's because that's God, right, that God is our spiritual connection. Yeah. So, I understand when you say that you were looking for something to fill.
Gary: Yeah, yeah. And I'd already experienced–I'd read the book of Ecclesiastes, which is the story of the richest man on the face of the earth, the most powerful man, the most wise man.
Ben: Is that Solomon?
Gary: Solomon, yeah, and he had everything. There was nothing he never had. He had it all. And at the end, he says, “All that matters is to know God, to love God, to keep His commandments.”
Ben: All that matters is love.
Gary: Yeah. To love God, to keep His commandments, and to know Him. And I read that and that was probably the single most impactful book I'd read up until that time in my life, and that got me on the right track, but then it's a matter of realizing our God is a holy God and He won't accept us in a condition where we are holding onto sin or ways that aren't healthy. And for me, there were relationships that I had that weren't honorable to God and I had to let go of those relationships before God would accept me. I had to repent. It's just what Jesus said when he came–what's the first thing Jesus said? He said, “Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand.” And so, our God is a holy God. He wants holiness from us. And if we're not willing to do that, then we can't come into His presence.
Ben: So, you just cut all ties and got in the bus to Idaho?
Gary: Yeah. So, I got on the bus to Idaho. And when I got to Idaho, by the grace of God, I met all these Christian kids my age. And so, that kept me out of trouble because I didn't know anything from the time I was 11 years old.
Ben: And what did you do when you got to Idaho?
Gary: Well, once I got to Idaho, yeah, I got a job. And I met this volunteer fireman, who was at the fire department, and a Christian guy and he invited–
Ben: That's in Moscow, right?
Gary: Yeah. And he's asked if I wanted to become volunteer fireman. I said, “Wow, wow. That's cool. Sure.” So, I moved into the fire department there. It's a volunteer department. It had 12 roomers, student roomers that live there, and every single one of them was a Christian, which was for me, it was like, “Great. I had no chance to get back into trouble again because I was just surrounded by all these guys that–“
Ben: Way different scene than–
Gary: Yeah, way different scene than anything I'd ever known in my life. So, for me, it was just great. Just what I needed because I didn't have the discipline and the wherewithal to really say no to a lot of stuff. So, that helped me. And from there, I–
Ben: Did you do anything else besides–like, did you have random jobs or was it just in firefighting?
Gary: Yup. Well, I got involved with the discipleship program. So, I started to get filled up with spiritual information, and that was a nine-month program. And I got a side job doing pizza, making pizzas, and washing dishes. But at the same time, as I'm working in the fire department responding to fires and car accidents, I'm thinking to myself, “This is a lot of fun. And to be able to get paid to do this, that would be a dream job.” And within a year and a half, an opening came up at the Lewiston Fire Department, which is only for 35 minutes south of Moscow.
Ben: Twenty if you're me and [00:25:02] _____ to take math classes up there.
Ben: We would literally leave the house late and drive like 98 miles an hour in Moscow.
Gary: [00:25:11] ______.
Ben: No. Never. Well, one of us would sit side seat spot for cops while you drive. We've burned forever on that road many a time. So, you moved to Lewiston, Idaho, which is where I was born?
Gary: Yeah, right, yeah. Well, and we did a roundabout. We went from–I got married. When I was in Moscow, I met your mom. We got married, went to Florida, and ended up coming back to Lewiston when I found out about the job. And so, that started a career in fire and EMS services that lasted 18 years.
Ben: So, you met mom in Moscow, and then you all moved back to, like, your parents or what happened?
Gary: Yeah. Well, we got married and I decided our honeymoon was going to be driving back to Florida so that Pat can meet mom and dad.
Gary: And so, that's what we did. At the time, still, I wasn't sure what I wanted to be and I was thinking, “You know, maybe I'll just continue with the undersea diving.” I mean, I wanted to do something adventuresome. But then I started to consider the cons–it's one of the most dangerous jobs in the world, undersea welding and working. And I thought, “Yeah. I don't think so.” If I'm going to be married and have kids, that's not where I want to be. So, the other option was firefighting. So, that's when I started to look for jobs, and there's one opened up here in Idaho again. So, it was just another rewind. It's another exciting adventure coming back to Idaho.
Ben: Yeah, yeah. So, you, at that point, married to mom, working as a firefighter in Lewiston, Idaho?
Ben: Okay. And when I was born–I have my older brother Isaac. He's three years older than me. And then I was born. And for the majority of my childhood, that's what I remember, you were working as a firefighter. Now, what was that like for you physically, like in terms of going from liking adventure but not being super physically active to need to go through the rigors of firefighting and how'd you do? And the reason I asked that honestly, dad, is just out of pure selfishness because I–I look at my arms and my legs and my hand and like, “I'm you, like I have the same–maybe–“
Gary: Yeah. I know we run the same way.
Ben: Yeah. I've got a little bit of mom's side with the huge broad bony shoulders, but I'm primarily you, and I'm just curious how you fared physically as a firefighter.
Gary: I did fine. Preparing for the job, I started running and doing–I wasn't working out. I mean, I was working out doing pull-ups and push-ups, and sit-ups, and running because at the time, I mean, I don't think I'd ever been in a gym. This was back in the '70s. And yeah, I surprised myself because I came in with 250 applicants, 250 people taking the test, and they weeded out–the first weeded out for the written test and I came out number one. Then they weeded out for the physical strength balance or strength agility and endurance and I came in number one on all those. For me, it's like, “Wow, I can't believe I just did this but I did.” And then there was the interview and I passed that with flying colors and I got the job.
Ben: I've had my genes tested and I have the majority of like my–basically, my muscle fiber composition genes from your side and they dictate like this combination of power and endurance. It's a power endurance profile is what it is. It's about 16 different genetic SNPs that look at everything from mitochondrial density to fast twitch, slow twitch, muscle fiber composition, blood flow, antioxidant capacity. And basically, it's kind of like the Batman gene. Meaning like you're good at a whole range of physical tasks like power and speed and you're never going to be–or you'd have to work very, very hard to be professional at any of them, right, but able to perform–which is probably why I've bounced around from bodybuilding to triathlon to tennis and obstacle course racing and all this stuff. But you probably have a similar genetic profile in that you were able to perform across a wide variety of tasks in firefighting.
Gary: Yeah, yeah.
Ben: Interesting. So, you were at the Lewiston Fire Department, and obviously, at some point, you weren't. From what I recollect, you moved on from that to start your own medical company.
Gary: Yeah. I'm also wired. There are three words to think of; efficiency, effectiveness, and economy. I was working for the government operation and I didn't see any of that there. It was really frustrating for me. I thought, “Is this really where I want to spend the rest of my life just being held back or not being able to really do everything I want to do?” And I realize the guys I was working with, it was all about [00:30:16] ______ great job. Twenty years, you could retire in the military.
Gary: And you didn't have to work hard. It was a nice job because job–
Ben: And you were also–were you an EMT or a paramedic?
Gary: Yeah, yeah. I was an EMT. At that time, we didn't have paramedics back then. They came on later at least in our town. I don't know what it was like in big cities. I can't remember. So, I thought, “This isn't how I want to spend the rest of my life. I want to do something more than just exist in this job and make a paycheck and go home and look forward to retirement.” And I had that entrepreneurial blood in me from probably just the inspiration of my father. And I thought, “You know, I can do this service better. I can improve on it.”
So, I started my own business with nothing. I used–actually, what did I–I used my retirement, my IRA. Buy my first ambulance out of a junkyard. And yeah, I fixed it and it's like I restored it to pristine condition. I had to get licensed from the State, had to get certifications for all my EMTs. And so, we did it and went from zero–and I thought, “Okay. I can't quit my fireman job until this is supporting us.” I started in, I think it was September. By January, I was making more money than I was at the fire department.
Ben: And this was just basically a fleet of ambulances that you've–
Gary: Yeah. I just started one.
Ben: –built up from the ground from just one that you got at a junkyard. You hired a bunch of EMTs and were basically transporting patients from like hospice to hospital to nursing home, like non-emergency medical transport?
Gary: Yeah, right. So, I went from zero to 95% of business within four years. And then I started putting my sights on the emergency services because we had the experience behind this. We had all the certifications and I thought my guys are–this is what they're trained to do, so why not? Well, that was idealistic in the sense that I was up against a formidable foe with the firefighters. When they saw that I'd taken 95% of the transfers and now I was going after EMS and they knew I could help maneuver them, we were just more agile. I was a private company. We could figure out how to do it. And so, that's when the crap hit the fan and manic became all-out war.
Ben: I remember that because we'd go to Albertsons to rent a movie or buy some milk or whatever and we'd see firefighters who you used to work with at Lewiston Fire Department. They'd give us just like the stink eye and it was almost like there was this rivalry going on between Gary and his non-emergency ambulances that he's taking emergency and then the local government around fire department.
Gary: Yeah. And then I started–I took over a volunteer fire department that had gone defunct and started offering fire protection to the county, which didn't have any and the city didn't want to provide it. So, I thought, “Well, if they're not going to do it, I'm going to do it.” So, that's we started–so I had a private fire department, a private ambulance service, and I was the administrator of the fire service, and yeah, things are going well. But then the city decided, “Well, we want to get into the county.” So, it's like they saw what I was doing and it motivated them to really kick into high gear and start going after all this business.
So, I mean, it was good for–competition is good, right? It created a higher standard of care and a higher standard of performance and service for this city and for the county. But then there was another factor dealing with Medicare. Most of our funding–it was great income generator, but most of our money came from Medicaid and Medicare. And dealing with the government, again it was something–I couldn't do anything about that.
Ben: Trust me, I know, dad, because do you remember how I saved up for spending money on anything? I would get up at like 4:00 a.m. You trained me how to do all the insurance billing.
Ben: So, for three years, I was like–what I was like, 13 years old?
Gary: Yeah. You were young.
Ben: That's how I learned to type a million miles an hour. It's how I learned to just like navigate my way through computers because–eventually, you guys hired me like a guy who taught me computer programming. This isn't a story about me, but I was going to be a video game designer and I had an internship with a Microsoft programmer, but my first experience with computers was I was doing all the Medicare, all the Medicaid coding, and that was also–all of that was my first experience with health because I don't know if you remember this, but you used to take me to all these health conferences and I'd see dudes impaled on forklifts and guys with their arms shoved through meat grinders and every emergency situation known to man. I'd follow on the ambulance.
I remember like the EMTs, we come to visit you at the station across the river in Clarkston, Washington, and I'd have like EMTs chasing me around to stick me with an IV to practice that IV. I was deep into a lot of this stuff, and I think that that partially shaped my own interest then in health and medicine later on in life and I said, “I didn't want to be a computer programmer,” and I kind of shift into fitness. But then in my immersion and fitness, I renewed that interest in medicine and health, but that was all. Well, you were doing the firefighting and the non-emergency ambulance stuff, like I got exposed to a lot of that at an early age. I even remember when you'd take us to the nursing homes and we do BP measurements on long lines of nursing home residents as they're eating their mashed potatoes and peas and gravy. And then they'd come out and me and my brother Isaac and you, we do their blood pressure measurements. I tagged along to all that stuff.
Gary: Yeah, yeah.
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So, eventually, though, the competition from basically like the well-funded local government firefighting institutions and medical institutions forced you to move on from firefighting and ambulance?
Gary: Yeah. I lost interest. It's like I've been there, done that. I accomplished my goal and I thought it just wasn't fun anymore. It was the challenge–all of the regulations took the wind out of my sails. And so, yeah, I decided to get out. And during that time, I also started–so then I thought, “Well, I'm going to head start at the dispatching service for the ambulance service but also just for an answering service, dispatch service for the community.”
Ben: And for people who don't know what that is, what's a dispatching service?
Gary: Yeah. Well, back then we didn't have cell phones, we had pagers. All doctors wear pagers and service people would wear pagers so that if they got a call after hours, they could get the–the call would come in to a central phone center and then that dispatcher would dispatch out a message to the doctor or the service–
Ben: Yeah. Your kids would wear pagers, remember that?
Ben: All of us, we look like little druggies. Everybody thought we were like little homeschooled drug dealers when really, it was just so our parents could keep tabs on us and tell us to pick up milk or oatmeal on the way home.
Gary: Yeah. So, we took advantage of it. And actually, we started it was computerized. It was one of the first computerized networking systems at least in Idaho. And so, then I thought, “Well, to build up my business, I've got to go out and market and find customers.” But rather than do that, I thought I'm going to buy the competition. And so, I was ready to buy the competition. He said, “Well, I want to see what you got,” who am I selling my customers to. And when he came over and looked at our operation and he said, “You know, I don't want to sell. I want to buy you out.” I thought, “Okay.” So, I sold it and then I went on to other things.
Ben: So, what was next?
Gary: Well, during the interim, there was a short stint building aluminum welded jet boats, and that wasn't my choice. That was a good friend who I was trying to help out and I ended up going–
Ben: Yeah. I remember that phantom jet boat. I was the janitor in the warehouse. I mean, Isaac [00:41:23] ______.
Gary: Yeah. You guys are always involved in the family businesses. So, yeah, but that just wasn't my passion, so I lasted six months and got out of that. And, from there, eventually, I got into coffee. I thought, “You know, I want to do something that's not going to have any interaction with government, minimal amount of regulations where I can just grow a business and have customers that enjoy.”
Ben: I never quite asked you about or understood that transition because I remember, I think it was our friends, the Tuckers in Lewiston, they had like a coffee shop, Blackbird Java, I remember.
Gary: That was after.
Ben: Was that after?
Gary: Yeah, that was after.
Ben: Why coffee? Like, what was the–because I don't remember you being super into coffee up until that point.
Gary: No, no, I wasn't. Your mom and I had always talked about having a coffee shop just for something fun, and that was the path to the coffee shop, to the coffee house. I thought that's simple. I can bring the roaster, put it into my shop that I built on the property, and just started roasting. And I found I loved it, absolutely love. It was like I found a really enjoyed food and beverage, and that aspect of being a chef came out in creating the perfect coffee roast.
Ben: It was weird for me because like–I mean, as a kid, I would wake up. I would open the window and all I could smell was green coffee beans roasting. You built this huge like shed out in our driveway. But really, nice shed, almost like an actual coffee shop with this green and gold high-end deluxe Detroit coffee roaster that I think you got in Sandpoint. These giant trucks would show up in our driveway like way out in the sticks and the hills in Idaho and drop off these bags from South America, and Guatemala, and Colombia, and Costa Rica, and Tanzania. And I would go out there and you just have stacks and stacks of books about the chemistry of roasting and how–yeah. We'll probably talk about this, how water affects the espresso machine, and the coffee and barista. I remember you and my little brother Zach started traveling around all these coffee conventions and barista competitions where you flip the espresso handles and syrup bottles. But it was weird. You didn't seem to have at that point a normal job.
Gary: Yeah. No, it wasn't. It was more of just learning on the job. For me, most of what I've done from that point on, anyways, even with the ambulance, it's just self-motivation and figuring it out, going to wherever I needed to go to learn whatever I needed to learn, and then just doing it. And yeah, so that's basically how I got into coffee.
Ben: That was Greenfield Coffee.
Gary: Yeah, Greenfield Coffee, yeah.
Ben: Because I know you did a great deal of going to coffee conventions and being taught the chemistry of coffee; coffee roasting, and coffee making, and espresso. I was at Paul Chek‘s house a couple of weeks ago and he was walking me through all the science of making the perfect espresso shot. He told me, he's like–he said, “Most people don't know this, but it's the–” like he said the 24 to 28 seconds, and he showed me everything. I'm like, “Yeah. I know, I know, I know.” Because I knew all that stuff when I was like 13, basically making myself–basically not oblivious but I was resistant to the effects of caffeine probably by the time I was 14 because I just drank espresso all day long and I loved it.
Gary: Yeah. Probably got you testing it, yeah.
Ben: You did, yeah, but the thing I was going to ask you was just a broader big picture question because I've also wondered this about myself. I'm a voracious learner, like, you've seen my library in the house and I'll just get stuck on a topic and just buy every book on the planet and follow every Twitter account that exists for that topic and just go deep. And I remember you having a lot of books. I remember you having that big roll-up desk in your library and the big bookshelf and all the books, kind of like a hell lot of books.
Gary: The one that collapsed because it had so many books on?
Ben: Yeah. Yeah, the one that collapsed because you had so many books on it. I learned a lesson. My bookshelves are solid in the inside. River and Terran are going to be okay. But were you always a reader? Were you always a learner?
Gary: Not in school for sure. I didn't fit in, but yeah. I mean, when I got into a topic, I went in a whole hog, whether that was the Christian faith. I mean, I became a pastor and I studied–
Ben: That's right.
Gary: Yeah. I was a pastor for 10 years.
Ben: I remember you were like doing that on the side while we were firefighting [00:46:29 unin]. Yeah.
Gary: Yeah. It's like I saw that as I got to make money as a firefighter but I could read. So, yeah. As a matter of fact, the guys would be watching TV and I'd be reading books. So, I was constantly reading.
Ben: Would you be like there in the fire station planning what you were going to say in a Sunday sermon?
Gary: Oh sure, yeah, yeah. And then I'd get a fireman to come in for me so I could go to church on Sunday and teach.
Ben: So, you'd go preach and then just go back to the fire station?
Gary: Yeah, yeah. And all my downtime was spent reading for that. And then when I got into coffee, it was the same thing. And when I got into nutrition and water, it's the same thing. So, yeah, when I–yeah. So, you were similar.
Ben: Yeah. So, Greenfield Coffee. How many years were you roasting and selling coffee beans? From what I remember, you're selling to local coffee shops. I think you started to do a little bit online because I remember you hired me to create the website at one point.
Gary: Yeah, at the end.
Ben: Your little coding son.
Gary: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It was mostly just restaurants and espresso places, and then my [00:47:37] ______ own places. He had a drive-thru and I started with the espresso stand at the airport and did a drive-thru. And that was all planned so that I could–because I didn't know anything about running a food and beverage business.
Ben: That's right. I forgot you had a coffee shop at the airport.
Ben: Yeah. That was another one of my first jobs as working. I didn't work at the airport coffee shop. I worked at all your coffee stands up in Moscow because, by that point, I was going to college in Moscow. Actually, it was even before that. I was taking classes because I was homeschooled and you've had me taking some classes from tutors in Moscow, but I'd go up there early and work at your coffee shop in Moscow.
Ben: Yeah. So, how long was it that you just ran strictly coffee?
Gary: From '97 until 2007. So, yeah, 10 years.
Ben: Was that your initial exposure to really the whole nutrition, chemistry, water, food world?
Gary: Yes. Yeah, absolutely, but not–I was still on the standard American diet, not cognizant of organic. As a matter of fact, I would have customers come in and ask for organic coffees and I would just look at them like, “Why does that matter?”
Gary: Yeah. So, I had no concept of the relationship between nutrition and pesticides and all the stuff. It was still just completely off the radar for me, actually until 2005. And that's when there was–probably the most significant events in my life regarding–it was the most significant event regarding nutrition and becoming aware that, wow, there's something to food that–we used to have kids over all the time, right, for dinner on Sundays.
Ben: I remember that.
Gary: Yeah, the college kids.
Ben: Not just on Sundays. Like our house–
Gary: Yeah, [00:49:41] ______ every day.
Ben: –between mom being a hair stylist and having people come over for haircuts all day long, between the fact that we were like the family to hang out with in the local homeschooling communities. Like, every kid was at our house playing in our pool and on our tennis court and just playing on our acreage all day long. And then you guys would throw these massive house parties every single Sunday. So, we'd have like 20 college students over every Sunday. I tell people I'm introverted. I grew up in a house that was basically a zoo seven days a week.
Gary: It was, yeah, yeah.
Gary: Yeah. So, one of the girls we had over shared with us at the table that her mom was cured of cancer from a raw food diet, and I was astounded. What in the world? How can that be? And that was what set me on my quest to then just dive a whole hog into understanding nutrition and natural health, and eventually, water.
Ben: And that was weird for me because our diet growing up was largely comprised of–and we did a lot of fast food. I remember you'd take me on my Burger King dates. I remember the McDonald's big breakfast. You'd take me to the McDonald's big breakfast and I'd have the hashbrowns. I remember the platter with the hashbrowns and the orange juice. Then we did after all of our baseball games, you'd always take us to Dairy Queen for the blizzards. And then of course Burger King in the Whoppers, that was one of our favorites. But yeah, we hit every fast food restaurant in 21st Street in Houston, like that was our life.
Gary: That's right.
Ben: And then mom of course would bring us and any of our friends in the suburban down to McDonald's on 29-cent cheeseburger, 29-cent hamburger, 39-cent cheeseburger day, and literally bring back bags and bags and bags of grease-soaked paper from McDonald's and stocked the fridge. I remember all this because right now–like written discussions at Kion right now about how can we create healthy versions of comfort foods. And I'm like, one of the biggest ideas in there because there are so many that we subsisted on them, taking baked pizzas from Papa Murphy's. We did tons of cereal, tons of cereal. I remember I would do like three or four peanut butter Cap'n Crunch bowls a morning. Yeah. So, it was standard American diet.
Gary: Yeah. Absolutely, 100%.
Ben: So, for me, it was full-on freaky weird when I saw my dad start doing things like making crackers. And I remember you'd come over to the house and you have like ferments, this stuff that just–I had no clue what it even was. It's like sprouts and ferments. I was at the time, by that point, this was 2005, right?
Gary: Yeah, 2005, 2006.
Ben: Okay. So, this was a year or two into my marriage with Jessa.
Gary: Yeah, yeah, right.
Ben: And Jessa, although she came from a ranching farming background, she grew up dirt poor making food from scratch. So, even though we weren't doing a lot of fast food and junk food, we were doing a lot of kind of like American farmer scratch food. So, we were doing just basically flour biscuits and whatever meat was on sale that we could make some kind of a dish out of, and some fish and whatever produce we could afford, and we grew a lot of our produce. But we weren't organic, we weren't raw, we weren't fermented.
The only reason we started doing any of that was Jessa used to have horrible acne and eczema. And she came home from the University of Idaho library one day with this book called, “The Dietary Cure for Acne” by Loren Cordain, who was like the godfather of the paleo diet. And that was my first introduction and her first introduction into how food can heal the body. But it was around that same time when I'm starting to–I think Robb Wolf had just launched his podcast. And so, I'm starting to listen to Robb Wolf a little bit. I had just started my podcast at the same time, which had nothing to do with nutrition. It was just all about fitness.
Ben: And then you were getting into raw food. And I just remember being really weird because even though I was starting to get into food a little bit and how it can heal the body that you were full-on like–like one of the folks walking around Air1 L.A. just on a totally different level that's just like eat healthy.
Gary: Yeah, yeah.
Ben: Yeah. Like the $30 jars of fermented coconut yogurt with unicorn tears sprinkled–bottled under a full moon. So, you got into raw food, and what happened after that?
Gary: Well, from there, I went to General Nutrition that's researching every kind of raw food, every kind of medical, just essential oils, every kind of medical treatment that was natural.
Ben: I remember that. Oregano?
Gary: Yeah, oregano.
Ben: You got me into oregano. You treat me under oregano, which I eventually–I took that over. Kion still sells oregano now. You were my first–I think you also wrote like–I don't remember why. I think it was a deal where you didn't want your name published or something like that at the time but you have a guest article on my website from way back in like 2007 about oregano. Yeah. I think you called yourself like your middle name Alan or something like that. But yeah. And you actually–so at the same time Jessa was exposing me to this whole ancestral nutrition side of things, you were exposing me to largely what I think a lot of people would consider to be like the woo-woo side of things, like frequencies, crystals, essential oils, water, a lot of this other stuff that I'd never heard of before.
Ben: Yeah. So, you weren't doing this as a business though.
Gary: No, although I was selling. Eventually, I had a friend who I was learning that I had met, who had an oregano oil business and he was leaving the country, so just for fun, I took it because it was just a small business. I mean, it was easy to–and so that got me into essential oils big time and I started going to some conferences and doing research and learning everything I could about essential oils. And yeah, eventually, I sold that business and got into water.
Ben: How'd you get into water? Like, what was it that got you interested?
Gary: Well, first was a book by Viktor Schauberger. And then the number of books about Viktor Schauberger.
Ben: Yeah. He's the Austrian–he's like–was he a naturalist physician?
Gary: Naturalist visionary.
Gary: Yeah. Self-educated, didn't go to college but he came from generations and generations of forest–
Ben: I'm writing notes myself right now because I'll put a link to some of his stuff in the shownotes. He's got some very interesting work.
Gary: Yeah, very interesting. And so, then somebody invited me to this king in water demonstration. I had no idea what a king of machine was. I didn't know what ionization was. And I went to the presentation and I was still 24/7 into studying nutrition, natural alternatives, and nature. So, I watched them put on this presentation, which was pretty impressive. But I looked at that machine. I thought, “Well, they're using electricity and they're claiming that they're making water the best they can be.” And I thought, “We can't outdo nature, that there's got to be a way to do this without a gadget, without a machine that brings water back to its natural state.”
Ben: Versus like a water alkalizer or kangen or any of these type of machines.
Gary: Yeah. I mean, every machine out there, what they do, they do what the body does, but they're doing it before it gets to the body, really. It's an H2 generator. I mean, the body breaks down the H2O and separates out the oxygen and creates chlorine and creates ozone.
Ben: Or the new deuterium-depleted water idea through beta-oxidation like your body–if you're limiting starches and sugars and processed carbohydrates, your body actually generates its own deuterium-depleted water. And if you're also avoiding deuterium isotopes, which come from plants that have been sprayed with pesticides and herbicides, that combined with carbohydrate mitigation saves you from having to–well, I shouldn't say it saves you, what it does is it allows your body to limit the amount of this heavy, heavy isotope that displaces hydrogen. So, you're getting deuterium-depleted water in your body.
But what I found is that in many people, because you can test now, your deuterium levels, and they're so high many people actually have to drink this so-called light water. It's deuterium-depleted water that's now coming out of Austria and Germany and Russia, and now being imported into the U.S. But I believe that in the same way that if you eliminate things like dairy and grains from your diet temporarily, your gut heals, then you can reintroduce those type of foods. I think if you're depleted in deuterium, you can limit deuterium and even drink deuterium-depleted water for some time, but it might not be something you have to do your entire life.
Gary: Yeah, yeah. It's our diet is so imbalanced now because of all the contaminants that–
Gary: Yeah. So, it's really a challenge to keep it in balance just by natural processes.
Ben: Yeah. So, you were looking at these water filters, you're getting interested in water, and what'd you do from there?
Gary: Well, from there, I was introduced–when I traveled to Korea and met with–actually, he was a professor of I think molecular biology who was into water. And he got into water because his daughter had a disease that was incurable and he figured out how to use energy EMF from minerals to get into the water and use that to cure her, or at least to help her so she could function.
Ben: When you say EMF, that's a red flag for many people?
Gary: Yeah. Well, it's kind of like the EMF spectrum. When you look at a spectrum on the EMF, what do you see? You don't see anything natural on there. It's all man-made stuff. I mean, really, from radio waves to alpha gamma, it's all man-made, where all of that came from nature. We're just corrupting. We're just–
Ben: Right, exactly. Non-native EMF, but a lot of people don't realize the native EMF, grounding, earthing, sunlights, even like machines that generate pulsed electromagnetic fields, certain frequencies. And there are companies like Essential Oil Wizardry that expose their actual bottles to frequency generators that are generating native EMF that bombard oil because oil can carry that signature, water can carry signature if it's exposed to those frequencies as well. So, when you say EMF, you're referring to native EMF?
Gary: Right, natural. Yeah, native or natural EMF. Yeah.
Ben: So, that's what this guy was doing. He was basically exposing water and natural EMF?
Gary: Right, using minerals. And so, my quest was to figure out how to create a device that was non-sacrificial in nature that wouldn't–like a free energy device that would impart into water beneficial energies in a way that didn't require any kind of adjunct equipment or plugging into the wall.
Ben: Without requiring the electricity?
Gary: Yeah, without requiring man-made electricity, because of course electricity is–
Ben: Yeah, after. Okay. So, basically, we're talking about figuring out how to modify water to cause it to vibrate or oscillate the water atoms, to vibrate or oscillate a frequency similar to what you find in nature without the use of electricity.
Gary: Right. Using natural means. The problem with water today is that it's bypassing all the natural parts of the cycle that structure that water, that energize that water, that bring into a natural state where it's free of contaminants energetically and physically, and where it's–but it's got a rich array of not only physical minerals but also energetic or native EMF.
Ben: Right, which forms the exclusion zone in water, which I've talked with Dr. Thomas Cowan about, and I've talked with Dr. Gerald Pollack about. I want you to feel the pressure to delve into the science–Dr. Robert Slovak about it, about how you can create an electrical charge within water, very similar to a plant, allows water to pass through a vessel with less obstruction, which allows it to create in the aqueous matrix surrounding a cell, a higher electrical charge. And that also allows it to basically get exposed to things like sunlights, protons within the body, et cetera, and interact with those because of the actual charge that the water contains versus a lower charged water that would be comprised primarily of H2O bonds versus H3O and a large number of these exclusion zones that guys like Dr. Gerald Pollack have set in his lab in the University of Washington.
Gary: Yeah. Well, for instance, when you work out, what is it that buffs you up?
Ben: That buffs you up?
Gary: Yeah. What is it that gives you the structure, the mass, and even the strength?
Ben: Muscle fibers?
Gary: Well, yeah. But what's acting on the muscle fiber is the water molecules that surround it.
Gary: So, what's happening to those water molecules when you're working out? It's movement, right? Correct movement has an impact on that. It changes the molecular angulation of the water molecules. And then you combined nutrients with that which is energy, and what is it that the water absorbs those energies? It doesn't absorb so much the–the physical component is there to carry the energy, the information, and that's what your water cells absorb, what your water molecules absorb, and that's what buffs you up. That's simple.
Ben: Right. And that also serves as almost like a charge capacitor in terms of taking not just movement, right, physical oscillations that can produce–essentially, when you look at water, it's a crystalline structure. So, you're talking about PA2 electricity from the movement. You're talking about light and proton-based movement from infrared light or sunlight if you're being exposed to that while you're moving. And then you could also say the actual minerals within the body would affect that as well.
Gary: Yeah, but it's also–I mean, there's a [01:04:14] _______ it's a mix of energetics and physical actions. Energetic actions, which can create a physical action, but also physical actions that can draw in or absorb or attract an energetic benefit. For instance, water physically, in nature, it's always going back and forth like this. It's like an oscillation. It's the left-right movement–
Ben: Right. For people listening, he's moving [01:04:35] ______ like a fish. So, it's almost like an underground stream, for example, with the water tumbling over the rocks.
Gary: Yeah. Or even if you look on the earth of any streams, they're going to be just extreme left-right turns. It's just like squiggling. And that's what water does naturally, because that's what creates the structure. When you increase the angular structure of the molecule bonding, you're expanding the water's ability to absorb energy because that's what it's all about. It's about the water bringing an information or energy and storing it and then taking it into a plant, animal, or person, or into the environment to release that energy.
Ben: Right. And that's what so many people–and I want to get back to what you did when you decided to figure out a way to create that charge within water without the use of electricity. But that's what so many people still shockingly fail to wrap their heads around when they're low on energy or have poor metabolic or mitochondrial function is just this whole idea of–as Robert Becker in his book The Body Electric refers to it, the body being a human battery.
Ben: Right. If you want to be healthy, then eating vegetables and exercising is nowhere near as important as sunlight, minerals, water, grounding, earthing, and exposure to, and this is one that I get thrown in the bus for a lot, but it's true, exposure to the proper frequencies of energy, and that includes positive emotions and relationships and being with other people. That is the key to health. It is not moving in nutrition, which is how I spent the first two decades of my existence in the fitness sector thinking that everything could be solved with proper diet and proper movement. But unless you have the electrical part of things figured out in terms of the actual electrical and frequency structure of the human body as a battery, you're going to fight an uphill battle your entire life. So, I'm going to get off myself [01:06:38] _____ and go back to the mineral. So, you're trying to figure out how you can create this filter.
Gary: Yeah. Well, actually, it was how to create water that could absorb as much energy as possible for the benefit. Primarily, our focus was on plants and animals, and because it's a lot easier to work with plants and animals and with people on multiple levels. So, yeah. So, we just started with–I mean, one of the most simple experiments I did was just with the kitchen sink where I took water just out of the tap and filled up a cup with soil in it, and I had like five cups of soil and I just–one had tap water, one had structure, the water that had been vortexed, one had water that had been vortexed with specific energies, which means that–and all I did was wrap the vortex with minerals on the outside, never touched the water. Then I had one where it went through the minerals and the vortex. And I just put them out in cups outside and just watched to see what happened. Every single one of those cups had a different dynamic within the soil. I mean, everything from growing some kind of chalky substance to one being extremely wet, another one being dry. Every one of them had a different response, which told me that there was something–it was not only the vortexing that was having an impact, but it was these invisible energies that never even touch the water that was like light being absorbed into the water.
Ben: Yeah. You have pictures. There's an e-book on your website that–I actually was looking through it prior to our interview because I wanted to see what kind of resources were on your website for people and you have a picture of these jars, the water clarity.
Gary: Well, that's another one. Well, that's another one I did where I just took tap water and then I took water that was structured with the mineral component just to see how would it react with rice in a jar. So, those jars had rice. Each one jar had rice and water, and one was structured water, one wasn't, and I just want to see what would happen. And the structured water state crystal clear with the rice in, and the other jar was very murky.
Ben: Yes, very cloudy. It looks like dirty water.
Gary: Yeah, but I spent years doing so many, just simple experiments apart from just even working with plants and animals. I mean, I've been working with plants and animals and doing these experiments for almost a decade now and it's like I know exactly what's going on.
Ben: I remember one day you came back because I was still trying to figure out what you were doing, because even when you were into this, I hadn't read, “The Body Electric.” I didn't understand frequencies or energy or the impact on the body at all. So, for me at this time, what you were doing was really weird.
Gary: Yeah, I know.
Ben: But I remember you came back. Wasn't it India or some other country you went to where you were actually feeding livestock, about allowing livestock to drink structured water?
Gary: Right. Well, we did a lot of work in India because in India, there's lots of farmers. The farms are small and it was easy to work there. So, yeah, we worked–for instance, there was a calf on one of the farms we were working at. The calf was just drinking water out of the well, and the calf was very antisocial, very skittish, didn't want to be around people, and they started to give it structured water and its whole personality changed. It all of a sudden became very social, very at peace. And I saw the same thing happened with chickens where we did a side by side two barns, one got the borewell water, one got the treated structured water. And the chicken farmer didn't know that chickens could have a temperament that was peaceful. He always saw chickens that were extremely agitated and had a modeled look to them, not a healthy look. And when he could compare it to the chickens that had the structured water, it was like he couldn't believe the difference, and that these chickens were very peaceful, they looked great, they gained more weight, they ate less food, they were healthier.
Ben: The water was not filtered differently; it was just structured, because there's a difference, right? So, you could still–could you still have water that is structured but contains chlorine, fluoride, pesticides, birth control pills, all the things that we find in our normal water supply?
Gary: Sure, but there's an energetic filtration going on. When you expose these energies, their energies are designed to do three things; clean, feed, and protect. When I say energies, I mean electromagnetic frequencies that emanate from any natural substance, and they all fulfill that role. For instance, like with chlorine, I was wondering, when we used a structured water unit in a pool, the odor would dissipate from the chlorine that was very strong. The red eyes would dissipate. The people that were allergic to chlorine that got red skin, it wouldn't get red anymore. I always wonder, what's going on? What do we do in that chlorine? Because the chlorine was still there. You'd measure it. And what I think was happening was just changing. It was literally breaking down in that industrial created chlorine to elemental, to a more pure state of chlorine that wasn't toxic like a chloride.
Ben: Right. Then the gas would dissipate. The gas would dissipate more readily off the surface of the water, if that were the case.
Gary: Yeah, yeah. So, I know we were–and I think there's a number of things that–for instance, even with–I took sewage water from a lake in Bangalore. In the middle of Bangalore, there's 25 million people.
Ben: Which is plasma experiment?
Gary: Yeah. Well, and it was fed by the water treatment plants that supposedly treated the water, and it was treated but it still had fecal matter in it, and it stunk, it was pretty bad. And I took that water. I took two gallons, put it into a plastic bucket and dropped one of my simple handheld structuring devices in it with a harmonizer, and put a little aquarium pump in it. So, we'd have to push it through the handheld device, put a cover on it, and let it run to see what would happen. Well, we had E. coli and coliform in it. And after a week, the coliform was gone. After two weeks, all the E. coli was gone and the water that had been scummy and green was now crystal clear. There was no filter in that. It was just vortexing exposure to native EMF.
Ben: Right. And when you say there's no filter, what you mean is that normally, there are filters. And in typical water filter, there would be filters with tiny microporous, like a reverse osmosis or a charcoal, like a carbon block filter. The water would pass through that. The toxins or chemicals or whatever you're filtering out would get absorbed or absorbed, the term would be.
Gary: Yeah, [01:13:16] ______.
Ben: Yeah, absorbed in hydro.
Ben: And then the water is then clean, but the electrical charge of the water has not changed. As a matter of fact, the electrical charge is gone for that.
Gary: Yeah. Especially any water that goes through a filter, it's already dead.
Ben: Right. Whereas in this case, if I understand properly, you're simply feeding the water through vortices, through minerals.
Gary: Well, no. It was actually no, never touch the minerals. It was glass, just glass–
Ben: Like glass beads?
Gary: Yeah. Triangular configuration of glass beads was vortexing the water, doing a perfect left [01:13:50] ______ radial spin, left/right spin at the same time going through this device. So, it's just vortexing the–
Ben: So, you're only changing the electrical charge of the water?
Gary: Well, that, then we'd change the molecular structure. But we're also, we're pulling in the ether, which is charged with elements that are in the air. And then I had my harmonizer cartridge in there which was sealed but it had all the elements of the periodic table and a number of other minerals that I–
Ben: Now, the harmonizer cartridge, that's what I have in my hot tub in my pool, and there's on my refrigerator as well, and in my travel bag. But what's the harmonizer cartridge?
Gary: Well, that emits the light, that emits the native EMF or the information, whatever you want to call it, the energy. And what happened in that water, that broke down organic matter that I could visually see in the water, broke it down to an elemental state. After two weeks, I drank that water.
Ben: Yeah, but the harmonizer, it's not light. Isn't it minerals that's in there?
Gary: Yes, that's right. It's minerals but they're emitting. See the science? This is a science.
Ben: Okay. So, you're talking about photons?
Gary: No, no photon. Photons, there's no such thing as a photon.
Ben: Explain this to me.
Gary: Okay. Science not got it right, okay? The way the ingredients, when you take it back to the most simple–and I'm a very simple guy. I'd take it back to the most simple–to the beginning, where it was water in the beginning. Okay. And I'd take this from the book of Genesis, but also from philosophers and scientists through the ages, who will confirm this. So, it's confirmed by being proven generation after generation. We're just not told about it. But in the beginning, there was water. Okay. In the Greek, it's hydrogen. What is hydrogen? It's hydro water in the beginning, okay?
Ben: Yeah, hydrogen.
Gary: Yeah, that's right. Okay. So, it's water in the beginning, and it was dark, void, and still. Okay. So, there was no energy. There's nothing there. It was lifeless. No animation, nothing. It was just hydrogen, a sea of hydrogen. That was there and then the story is that God created light. He created energy. So, those are the two components, separate components that create everything you know are a reality, or heaven and earth. That is made up of hydrogen gas, which when you take–for instance, you take the hydrogen, if you look on the periodic table, you could deduct it. That hydrogen molecule, you take two hydrogen molecules, you make the next element. You take four, you make the next.
All of the elements on the periodic table are comprised of hydrogen atoms. And when you change the configuration, it's like with carbon, diamonds and graphite. Same element, carbon, nothing else, just carbon. So, the chemical structure is the same. What changes so that one is one of the softest materials on earth and the other one is the hardest, but it's the same thing, carbon. It's just the molecular configuration. It's the same carbon, it's just they change the angulation and the structure of it, and that changes the dynamics of its density, of all of its attributes. And that's what happens is like, how can you have carbon dioxide in the air but you can have carbon as a gas or carbon as a solid? And the same thing with water where you can have water, not only as a solid, gas and liquid, but it also becomes every single element on the periodic table.
Ben: Yeah. Solid, gas, liquid, and actually in the human body, it's primarily a gel.
Gary: Yeah, but it goes even beyond that, far beyond that. That's mainstream science. What isn't accepted is that the hydrogen atom is that's the building block for all matter. That is separate from energy. Energy is light and that is what animates, what brings action or energy. That's what energizes us. So, it's the interaction of energy with hydrogen.
Ben: So, going back to the harmonizer, then how would the harmonizer work based on that explanation?
Gary: Okay. Well, what happens, the components that are inside that unit are emitting electromagnetic frequency, which you can call light.
Ben: And what is inside the unit?
Gary: It's just minerals.
Gary: It's just elements, minerals and elements.
Ben: Right. So, minerals in the same way that–
Gary: And spring water.
Ben: –if you stand barefoot on the ground, you're getting exposed to the electromagnetic frequencies emitted by the giant rock that we live on. You've got all these tiny, tiny, tiny small rocks in the harmonizer along with water, and that's emitting a frequency that is affecting, whatever, the food in the refrigerator that you're placing the harmonizer in, the desktop that you put the harmonizer on, the pool water that you put the harmonizer, and that's how they'd be working.
Ben: So, you're basically, what you're essentially doing in very simplistic terms is you have like a native EMF stick?
Gary: Yes. And when that EMF interacts with the water, whatever is in that water, the EMF does–it's doing three things. It's cleaning, feeding, and protecting. So, those are the three functions, and each element and each mineral has a different niche. But that's generally–it's like you got two ingredients, light energy, matter elements. Those are the two ingredients. And then from there, when those start to interact, you get feeding, cleaning, and protecting. And if you want to even break that down to one word, what you get is love, which is what a mother–what's a mother's love? What's a feeding, cleaning and protecting? That's mothers love, right?
Gary: Okay. That's God's love for us. So, it's like a chain event. God gives us this love, this physical love through creation. He created our environment so that we were surrounded by all of these energies that come from Him as a gift just to love us. They clean us, they feed us, and they protect us, and they're doing it all the time throughout every single cell in our body.
Ben: Sometimes I think of my role as a father and a husband is protect, provide, procreate, but I like that idea; feed, clean, and protect.
Gary: And protect. Why do we call nature Mother Nature?
Gary: That's because that's what nature is doing for us. Exactly.
Ben: Yeah. It is the yin, interesting, the yin of water. So, this harmonizer is just one of the things that you have, but I get a lot of questions because most of my clients, when I have them filtering their home, they're using this whole house structured filter. They just want to filter everything. But that is different. So, they get that from your website, but it's basically, that's a combination of carbon block and structuring, right?
Gary: Yeah. And the whole reason why I got into physical filtration products like [01:20:47 unin], carbon, the different catalytic bone char activated, the basic filters, not the stuff that gets into the iron and manganese and stuff like that, it gets too involved. The whole reason for me getting into physical filtration using cartridges was as a vehicle like a Trojan horse by which I could enter into a person's home and begin to introduce them to structured water. That's my whole purpose for it because structured water is–without it, we cannot bring water back to its life-enhancing state where–
Ben: Yeah. It's the most natural state that we find water in on the planet.
Gary: Yeah. But we can't find it anywhere because if it comes now with dams, it's like if you put it again–
Ben: We could find it but you got to be in a mountain [01:21:30] ______ spring.
Gary: Oh, it's ridiculous. Yeah. Well, I mean–yeah. I mean, for the masses, it's not attainable. It's like when they put a dam–you got dams on every single river in the world now. It's like when you put a dam on a river, it's like putting an occlusion on a vein, on an artery going to your arm, and you say, “Oh, okay. This is going to help.” Well, how is it going to help? Your arm is going to start to tingle, it's going to not get the nutrients it needs, it's going to start to atrophy. And that's what we've done to the earth because the rivers and streams are the lifeblood, it's the blood system for the earth.
Ben: Well, it's also the flow, the velocity or the flow in the rivers.
Gary: Yeah. It was flowing. But when we stop that flow or slow that flow or straighten that flow out where an engineer comes in and says, “Why do you have–with all this wiggly stuff you're going two miles, put a straight line and you make it a mile and we've just solved the problem.” Well, no, we haven't. We've created more problems because that's not working with nature.
Ben: Yeah. That makes sense. And the idea behind the structuring is the water would simply–because I have well water, and a lot of people were like, “Why the hell do you have filters?” And not only does the well water have some manganese and some runoff from fields up above us, but when it passes through my manganese filter, and I also have a bacterial iron base filter, that water is no longer structured, especially after it sits in the cisterns and gets through the pipes and everything. So, the very final stage my water passes through is a structured water filtration unit.
Ben: And from what I understand, your main whole house water filter now that you have on your site is basically a combination of the water passing through carbon block, which gets rid of a lot of these toxins and chemicals. But then after it passes through carbon block and then it passes through the structured water.
Gary: Yeah. But actually, with a lot of these filters, we can structure them before or after depending on what the filtration media is, and it's going to go both ways. I mean, it can work either way.
Ben: But that one is called–is that your HydroZ? Is that the whole house water solution?
Gary: No. Right now, it's this quad flow unit.
Ben: Okay. The quad flow unit is the one that has the carbon block?
Gary: Well, I've got two. I've got one quad flow that has physical filtration and one that doesn't.
Gary: So, yeah. So, I mean, I've got multiple options.
Ben: Right. So, you've got a few different SKUs on your site. I actually just pulled up your site to look at it. So, each of those, if somebody just wants to figure out which one they need based on their water, do they just contact you on your website and they're able to see which one?
Ben: And by the way, if you're listening in, don't stop listening right now. This isn't the end of the podcast. I'm just asking. This is not the part where I tell you to just go buy something. We still got more coming up here, but I'm just asking this question. So, how do people know? Because it looks like you've got three, four–you got an under sink, but then you have a whole house. How do people know which of these whole-house solutions they need, the multi-round, the HydroZ versus the quad flow?
Gary: Yeah. Well, the multi-round is for seawater only. It's not going to deal with well water. And the HydroZ is good for well water, but it's not the ultimate–with well water, you can have a lot of issues, and it's like having a doctor and having specialists. I've only chosen to deal with the basic issues because they really need to have a local water treatment specialist if they've got well water with issues because there could be all kinds of factors. And typically, the local water treatment guy, even though he's not into structuring, he knows nothing about it, they typically are very well acquainted with the dynamics and the problems with the well water–
Ben: Yeah, but that well water a lot of times need a customized solution. I had a guy customized the filtration of my water and then I had him talk to you and then we structured it after it gets filtered.
Gary: Yeah. And by the way, do you remember when you had put your system in, I came out and treated your aquifer? I poured 10 gallons of spring water mixed with my structured water down your shaft, and we took that, and then I came back I think two months later and measured. You had nine parts per million iron before we treated, and afterwards, we had three parts.
Ben: Just by treating the actual well, the structured water.
Gary: Yeah, because what we're doing, we're dropping by changing the viscosity of that one. We literally precipitated out iron. It dropped out of that.
Ben: And then you have the portable one where you could just travel with it and you would pour water from any source, like let's say a bottle of Pellegrino, or whatever you happen to have has been bottled and been sitting and is no longer charged. You would pour it through there, it comes out the other end, you do your glass, and then that's also structured.
Gary: Right. And I'm redesigning that handheld now. I'm not selling it right now. I'm doing a complete redesign on it.
Ben: You ever have anybody mess around with putting wine or coffee or something like that?
Gary: Oh, sure, yeah. I played around with all that and–
Ben: What's it do?
Gary: Well, some people like it better once it goes through. It definitely changes it. And I've had it where–I'm not a connoisseur, but I've had like–some come out spicier, some come out with less bitterness. It typically will smooth out coffee and/or a wine. It'll take out some of that bitterness.
Ben: Well, it absolutely changes, because I recently did an Instagram story. I was down in San Diego and I stayed at this retreat that had like this gold structured water vortices unit in each room, and that's essentially the same thing. But you pour it in there and it changes. You'd take one glass of water, you pour through the vortices, have another glass of water on the other end, you drink the water. And anybody who is doubtful right now as you're listening to this, you will know right off the bat, if you take a sip of the regular water then take a sip of the structured water, it's a night and day difference. And it makes the difference like you noted in livestock, for example.
But like Robert Slovak and I talked about, you can shower and bathe in structured water. It makes better coffee, which is–I was talking with Paul Chek about that. We pulled a shot of espresso. If the water has been structured, it tastes better. There are so many benefits to this stuff. And I don't want to turn this into one giant sales spiel, but what I will do is I'll link to my dad's website in the shownotes if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/garygreenfield. And you can go check out all the options for like the harmonizer, which is the one that produces the native EMF, the portable structured water filter, the whole health solutions. And from the folks I've talked to, you're pretty good at answering questions if people just don't know what kind of setup they want, right?
Now, I want to dive back into the big picture here because you have this idea when it comes to a lot of this stuff; energy, frequencies, water, love, God, this idea of the people of the wood, the parable of the people of the wood. What's the parable of the people of the wood?
Gary: Oh, years ago, it must have been, I don't know, 2015, 2013, I don't remember when exactly, but I thought, “Well, I should put an article in our local paper about my business,” because I'd never done it. And they always do a story on new businesses. And so, they did the interview and a week went by, nothing, another week went by, so I finally called them. I said, “You guys going to run the story?” And the journalist said, “No. The editor, he doesn't want it.” And I said, “Why?” He says, “He thinks you're misleading people.” And I said, “Well, what about the research? What about the evidence?” And he said, “He doesn't want to hear it.” So, I wrote that parable. It's just as a picture of what I saw as the problem in the world.
Ben: Oh, you wrote this parable?
Gary: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I wrote the parable.
Ben: So, what's the parable?
Gary: Yeah. Well, it was about the people of the valley and the people of the coastal cities, of the world. They were into money, fame, power, pleasure, all the things in the world. They were into technologies that were based on false principles, principles that were going to destroy them. And the people of the wood, they were connected with their ancestors, they were into tradition, they were into nature, they were into being one with nature, one with God, living a more simple life based on truth, based on tradition. And that's how I saw it. I saw the world we live in today, it's all based on a false reality. What we're teaching our children in university, from first grade to graduate school are principles that are false, your principles that are destroying us as a human kind.
You look at all the large corporations that are controlling the agriculture. It's all chemicals. And the farmers, they're all dependent on chemicals now. It's like you can't get away from it. They're based on principles that are killing us. Same thing with medicine, same thing with history's revision. It just runs the whole gamut. And so, that's why what I'm doing with water is not–it's hard for people to grasp it because they've just been brain-polluted to not accept truth.
Ben: So, the people of the coastal cities, the people of the villages, the people of technology, they eventually destroyed themselves?
Gary: Yeah. And that's what's going to happen.
Ben: Due to this lack of love, this malnutrition, this energy that was simply all twisted. Whereas the people of the wood thrived, grew on love, became nourished, and lived happily ever after.
Gary: Yeah. Simple.
Ben: That's a long way to come from a 17-year old [01:31:53] ______ in Miami, Florida.
Gary: Yeah. Sure is.
Ben: Well, I don't know if I've ever fully expressed to you how grateful I am to you for molding me into who I am today. Every step along the way was meant to be. There are mistakes that happened to everyone but there are no regrets. Everything was meant to be. I think that many of us, especially in this generation, we tend to think back and we blame our parents. We say they could have done something different, or we blame trauma, we blame poor relationships, we blame poor parenting, we blame choices that we wish our parents would have made. But I see so much more clearly the older I get that every step from doing the medical billing in your office to working at the ambulance station, to every Saturday having to wake up at the butt crack of dawn to go deliver meals on wheels to elderly people with you in your car, to going to health conferences and playing my violin at nursing homes, like all of that, despite of the time, many cases being things I didn't want to do help to form me and took me on this weird zigzag path to where I am today.
And again, I never really realized it as much as I do now, but seeing your love for books, and learning, and exploring, and curiosity, and knowledge, and seeing not only your unconditional love for your family, but also your willingness to defy social norms, to stick it to the man so to speak and not care what other people think but to seek out the truth, I don't think I've ever expressed to you how grateful I am for you being my father and for you making me what I am today.
Gary: Oh, Ben, thank you.
Ben: So, thank you, dad.
Gary: Bless you.
Ben: And thank you for being in my podcast.
Gary: Yeah. Oh, son, I love you so much. I did the best I could with you and I'm very proud of what you become. I'm very proud.
Ben: Well, I love you too, dad. I'm hoping just a few people learned a few things on today's show.
Ben: So, thanks for coming on.
Gary: You bet.
Gary: Thanks for having me.
Ben: Alright, folks, I'm Ben along with Gary Greenfield signing out. All the shownotes at BenGreenfieldFitness.com/garygreenfield. Thanks for listening.
Well, thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the shownotes, the resources, pretty much everything that I mentioned over at BenGreenfieldFitness.com, along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful “Ben Recommends” page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormone, sleep, digestion, fat loss, performance, and plenty more. Please, also, know that all the links, all the promo codes, that I mentioned during this and every episode, helped to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. When you listen in, be sure to use the links in the shownotes, use the promo codes that I generate, because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.
Gary Greenfield is…
…a leading expert in structured water and the field of water filtration…
…and a deep well of knowledge I've relied upon for the past 37 years of my life.
He's also, obviously, responsible for my very existence.
During this episode, you're going to discover more about the man who made me who I am; along with how structured water works; the best way to filter your water; why you should quit caring so much about what other people think about your health habits; and much, much more.
During our discussion, you'll discover:
-Gary's early life and childhood…7:45
- Started in Miami
- Father and uncle were successful entrepreneurs in the motivational speaking industry
- His father invested time in his children
- Athletic, but no interest in competitive sports
- Brother was killed in gang fight at age 17 (turning point for him)
- Began oceanography studies and excelled at it
- 3 years after brother's death, moved to Idaho for a fresh start (age 20)
-How Gary “found God” shortly before moving to Idaho…18:00
- Was intrigued by the phrase “God's country” on a brochure for Idaho
- Went to spirituality conventions; left feeling empty at each booth
- “We yearn for God because God created us”
- Met a community of Christians his age once moving to Idaho
- Became volunteer fireman in Moscow, ID
- Became full-time fireman in Lewiston, ID (where Ben was born)
- Ben shows similarities in physical genetics between him and his father
-The transition from full-time fireman to entrepreneur…26:35
- Three words: Efficiency, effectiveness, economy (didn't see this working for the local government)
- Began ambulance service (non-emergency transport) and it grew fairly rapidly
- Ran into resistance and opposition when he tried to expand into emergency services
- Vast majority of funding came from medicaid and medicare (more bureaucracy)
- After growing tired of dealing with government bureaucracy, Gary founded a coffee shop
-The business Gary founded after leaving his successful medical transport business…38:40
- He and his wife had discussed having a coffee shop as a hobby
- Enlisted his children to help out with running the business
- Ran the coffee shop 1997-2007
- Was the first exposure to the nutrition/water filtration world (but still on standard American diet)
-How Gary became interested in nutrition…50:15
- In 2005, met a girl whose mom was cured of cancer on raw food diet (watershed moment)
- Book: The Dietary Cure For Acneby Loren Cordain
- Raw food, general nutrition, essential oils, oregano
- Kion Oregano Oil
-How God's love is manifested through water…55:40
- Viktor Schauberger
- Water & Water Filtration: Everything You Need To Know About Water Filters, Alkaline Water, Structured Water, Hydrogen-Rich Water, Deuterium-Depleted Water & Much More
- Discovered the story of a man who used EMF to cure his daughter of an incurable disease
- Native vs. non-native EMF
- My interview with Gerald Pollack
- My interview with Dr. Thomas Cowan on waterand how the heart is not a pump
- Energetic vs. physical actions
- Book: The Body Electricby Robert Becker
- Water “stores” energy and releases it onto plants, animals, people, etc.
- The body is a battery: If you want to be healthy, sunlight, minerals, water, grounding, exposure to proper frequencies of energy are the keys to health
- Want to develop water that can store as much energy as possible
- Three things energy in the water does: clean, feed, protect
- Structured water affects chlorinated water positively
- Water that goes through a filter is already dead
- Harmonizer cartridge: Native EMF stick
- Biblical account of creation:
- Begins with hydrogen
- Then God creates light
- It all comes back to love, creation
- Structured water is the most natural state in which we can find water
-The parable of the people of the wood…1:27:45
-And much more!
Resources from this episode:
– Greenfield Naturals Water Filters & Harmonizers we discuss on the show (use code: BEN15 for 15% off)
– Book: Blue Mind by Wallace J. Nichols
– Book: The Dietary Cure For Acne by Loren Cordain
– My interview with Dr. Gerald Pollack
– Book: The Body Electric by Robert Becker
– Video: Virgil Klunder on Gratitude
–Kion Clean Energy Bars: Satisfying, nutrient-dense, real-food energy bars with a delicious chocolate coconut flavor! Ben Greenfield Fitness listeners, receive a 10% discount off your entire Kion order when you use discount code: BGF10.
–Organifi Gold: A new take on an ancient secret: Pain-soothing herbs, incredible antioxidants, and phytonutrients all in one delicious, soothing “Golden Milk” nighttime tea! Receive a 20% discount on your entire order when you use discount code: BENG20.