[00:00] Kion Serum/ Organifi Green Juice/ GainsWave
[06:00] About Hans Eng
[13:15] Loss of Protein & Disease
[20:12] On DNA Repairing
[38:50] Mind Pump
[41:54] DNA Repair & Exercise Performance
[46:29] On Oxygen Therapies
[52:59] Using the NanoVi
[1:02:19] End of the Podcast
Ben: Welcome to The Ben Greenfield Fitness Show, I'm Ben Greenfield, of course. Who else would I be? This is my show. Today I'm interviewing the folks who created this device I've been using in my house for, of all things, DNA repair. It's actually a very interesting show with this guy named Hans Eng. Hans Eng, it's a pretty bad ass name if you ask me. This podcast, as all podcasts from The Ben Greenfield Fitness Show, I'm just going to keep on saying that because I'm narcissistic and like to say my own name, is brought to you by my company, Kion. KION, which you can check out over at getkion.com.
One of the things that we have over there that I don't think a lot of people know about is this extremely hypoallergenic, super-effective skin serum. It's got twelve different organic ingredients in it. I spent a couple of years formulating all these ingredients, studying exactly what it is that can repair scars or get rid of wrinkles or increase the color and the tone of your skin. So it's got things like aloe vera, jojoba, I never know if I'm pronouncing that right, wild oregano oil, lavender, Geranium, palmorosa, turmeric, juniper berry, organic lemon extract. You can even put this stuff in your hair for a bit of added shine and shimmer like one of those old Pantene, provine shampoo commercials where you can swing your hair around. It's all sexy. Anyways, it's called Kion serum. You can get this or any of the other fine products that I formulate over at getkion.com. Just like it sounds like, Get Kion. How do you spell Kion? KION, getkion.com.
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In this episode of The Ben Greenfield Fitness Show:
“When people use HP, you put using unavoidable endemic G component that damage coating. The combination of bringing more oxygen for the ATP production into the body and supporting our technology as it repairs proteins that are now able to do the HP for the very direction of creating profit” “In the connection of cancer, the one area that we definitely see how it is used and that is for the generation during and after cancer cell P.”
Ben: Hey folks, its Ben Greenfield, and I have sitting on my desk, right in front of me, this really cool device. You may have seen me post about it on Facebook or Snapchat or Instagram, if you follow me on any of those channels, and it's got this strange blue light generating water canister on the top of it and then a nasal cannula and a tube that come out of it, and while I sit here and I work during the day, I breathe the air that comes out of this thing. It's called a NanoVi made by a company called Life Science Technology, Eng3 Life Science Technology out of Washington State, and it's a fascinating device that supposedly repairs DNA damage and generates some kind of a signal that actually, well I should shut up and have the scientist on the show talk to you about this because I've got a guy who can explain this a lot better than I can, and that's actually why I wanted to get him on the show because all I know is I feel amazing after I use this thing, whether it's before exercise or just during the day, but I have yet to wrap my head around the full story behind how this crazy contraption works. So I figured I'd get a biophysicist on the call, and his name is Hans Eng, and he's the president and the CEO of Eng3 Corporation which is this Seattle-based company that uses bio-physics technology to make these very interesting medical devices, and he has over three decades of experience with advanced medical technologies, both domestically and abroad, and has his mechanical engineering degree from Berlin, Germany, combined with a background in material science and proteomics. So Hans, welcome to the show, man.
Hans: Yeah, Ben. Welcome, thank you for having me here.
Ben: Yeah, it's a beautiful German accent that you have there.
Hans: Thank you very much for the introduction and you used a lot of key words that describe the background of our technology and which are describing parts that we are utilizing with the technology, and yeah. You were asking where everything comes from and what it is doing. Let me see if I can translate this in a very fast way to your listeners.
Ben: Actually you know what, can I interrupt you before you even start to explain that? Because I want to know more about you, man. I mean you're a biophysicist, but you seem to have this interest in repairing DNA damage, like in these medical technologies that are doing things that I wasn't familiar medical technology could do. Is this something you've always been interested in? Have you always been kind of interested in the human body and medical science? How did you actually get interested in this?
Hans: Yeah, that was basically my background. I studied material science in Germany, and part of the material science gives us time we all saw, say very soft material proteins of soft material. They have a different kind of binding energy to bathe their twist-based structure and the far-binded structure, and with this knowledge, I started to work in medically-wise companies, at first in human implant technologies, companies that are building artificial bones, artificial joints. One of the companies in Berlin that got bought by drugs of Johnson. I worked in R&D department, and the surface structure, how those kind of artificial joints and bones being accepted by the body in all cell biology. So cell biology was an important part of this kind of area. You have to know how the body works and during this time, cell biology was not really highly developed as it is today, and we had to study and to learn a lot of things about the cell side. I think we were working, and we were pretty mechanic and everything.
So my department, where I worked in, and we were mainly interested in how do proteins work because proteins in our body are the really causes. The proteins in our body do everything, not in the human body only. In every body of a living species, the proteins are the key part, huh? The proteins are build out of amino acids, fifty percent of the amino acids that we need for our lives are produced in our body, by our body. The other fifty percent we have to take in by food, and the small amount on the twenties, these amino acids are being used in the gene expression to create more than nine hundred thousand different proteins in our body. So nine hundred thousand different proteins in our body, some by one protein strand in a protein network are working in our body in execute function. Some of those proteins you know, Cholesterine, Insulin, its fun, yeah? We know a lot of enzymes, we know that we need enzymes for digestion. We know that we have hormones which are protein growth hormones. Most of these nine hundred thousand proteins, we don't know. We know something about maybe thirty thousand proteins. Their structure, we don't know. Their size, they are having very short lifetime, and we have more than then thousands of different proteins in a cell, in one cell, and they are running everything, and the very protein-like molecule in our cell is the DNA. DNA actually is not a protein, but protein-like structure held together by hydrogen bonds which is a very weak bonding element. These that make them vulnerable. So things that happen to them could destroy, could damage the proteins, could damage the DNA, and then you will lose this kind of function, yeah?
And as we know today, all chronic diseases that we have is nothing else than a loss of certain protein functions. We don't know which one, but we know that the loss of those protein functions finally end in a chronic disease, and the accumulation of lots of co-protein functions are basically causing the aging towards the end when we lose the most vital protein functions when you're dying.
Ben: Now what do you mean when you say that a loss of protein functions is associated with chronic disease? Can you give an example?
Hans: For example, diabetes. We know that insulin is involved in a diabetes that dysfunctions insulin production could cause diabetes. We know that a certain kind of apoptosis function, so that means it's a programmed cell disc and that is getting lost that causes cancer, and a lot of us fell pity in Alzheimer chronic diseases, hardly worse of all diseases are all related to protein functions that are getting lost.
Ben: I think it's interesting, you know? Have you ever heard of Aubrey De Grey?
Hans: Not very intensively.
Ben: Okay, he's this guy who has the SENS Research Foundation, and they research longevity, and specifically the reasons people get chronic disease or the things that one can do to enhance anti-aging, and I interviewed him on the show, and he has seven different proposed reasons that aging damage occurs. For each of those seven reasons, every single one has to do with proteins, right? So mutations, right? Changes to nuclear DNA that contains genetic information or proteins that bind to the DNA. Junk, right? Like cells constantly breaking down proteins and this build-up of literally of harmful junk protein that accumulates outside of cells like amyloid plaque in Alzheimer's patients. Cell secreting proteins that might be mutated or might be harmful. That's basically known as cellular senescence, right? Or cells that are cross-linked, right? Extracellular protein cross-links he calls them, where cells are held together by special linking proteins that when too many cross-links form, the tissue loses elasticity and that causes like, for example, ulterior sclerosis in vessels or fibromyalgia in muscle tissue, and so I think it's interesting. You're talking about proteins in chronic disease, and when I interviewed him, every single reason that people get old is basically because of DNA damage or some kind of protein damage or build-up of junk proteins. You're kind of speaking the same language as him.
And by the way for everybody listening in, I'm going to put show notes to this. I'll link to that podcast I did with Aubrey, but I'll link to everything else Hans and I discuss. Just go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/dnarepair. That’s bengreenfieldfitness.com/dnarepair. So Hans, sorry to interrupt you, but I believe you're talking about how DNA actually gets damaged.
Hans: Yes, yes, yes. So by knowing all these problems and anti-aging and stuff, if accumulation of protein damage, we are very interested in how it's possible to do something against it. From we know that a lot of possibilities or ideas out there to prevent damage, so to avoid the damage to happen, but then we have to look a little bit on the facts. What are the mechanisms that's doing this damage, and when you look at this as the same fare, it's basically a big thing to do to protect them. The big ones damaging event in the cell are actually caused by a very important process that has to occur in the cell, other than just the ATP production, the energy production in the cell is utilizing oxygen, but it's producing as a side effect an unavoidable side effect of a free radicals. These are the reactive oxygen species. We are producing per day about six hundred and fifty quadrillion free radicals for a normal breathing person. If you're an athlete and you're doing an endurance sport, you can easily have a hundred times more of this amount of damaging molecules in your cells. So they're just unavoidable, these damaging molecules have only mainly one group of other particles that can find and reconnect with each other in the cells and these are the proteins.
So there are ten thousand, thirty thousand different proteins and cells that are getting damaged. DNA is per day damaged far more than a hundred thousand times, and these chains have to be repaired, and our body is stable. I say in biology, there is a process that is enabling the repair. As fast as it is repaired, as better the system stays healthy. You can perform further because we're not losing functions, we're not losing abilities to regenerate your cell ATP, for example, your cell energy. We were not interested to avoid the damaging process. We are interested to support the repair process.
Ben: The repair process? So you're not trying to stop the damage, you're basically like a better strategy for people, rather than eliminating the damage, would be to just repair the damage that's going on?
Ben: Why wouldn't you want to stop the damage and do the repair at the same time?
Hans: That is your choice. I mean that is the choice of the person itself. I can try to work a certain lifestyle, I can try to work a certain rate how I eat, how I work, what I do.
Ben: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You're not saying go get a Big Mac and super-sized fries every day and like breathe into your special device to repair the DNA, right?
Hans: Some people do this thing. For example, they have a really demanding lifestyle. If you have a very stressful, demanding job, yeah? You basically could say that you're running everyday with your brain in a marathon.
Ben: Or if you are a marathoner or an Ironman triathlete or a cross fitter or somebody like me who's beating on my body every day. I mean I'm not eating junk food, but I'm putting my DNA. I'm bringing it to hell and back every day, and I know it, right? That's why we're talking 'cause I'm constantly figuring out ways to repair it.
Hans: Yes, yes. You as a person or me as a person, I try to minimize the bad influence, the bad impacts, yeah? Our technology and our company would all back on we try to offer a product that we can improve and boost your repair capacity on top.
Ben: Now before you talk about the repair capacity, sorry to interrupt, but how does DNA actually get repaired in the first place?
Hans: The DNA of being are repaired by enzymes. A couple of years ago, people got Nobel prizes if they could show which kind of enzymes in the certain area of the DNA, if it is involved in the repair. You could think about these are little siphon, they are running up and down the DNA in the certain area, and they look if everything is okay and if there is some breakage. They ask other proteins to repair this part, and if the breakage is too big, if the damage is too big, then the entire DNA is being discarded. The cell sometimes is being discarded, and the new cell is being initiated. So you have the replacement of a broken cell, and here you see Ben, those proteins, for example, got damaged. If got damaged, it happened to every protein or could happen to every protein in the cell. If those proteins repair proteins damaged, then the repair actions of control mechanisms to look for damaged long DNA cannot happen anymore, now you have a broken DNA, and then next gene impression, you get a wrong blueprint for the next generation of proteins and now you start to run bigger problems, and it could cause the proteins of the DNA, initiating during the gene expression, the proteins have failure and now you run in bigger health problems.
Ben: Okay, so basically when you're looking at DNA repair and you're saying these enzymes are a system of DNA repair, essentially enzymes are like removing incorrect bases and then replacing them with the correct bases, and that's essentially going to take care of replication mistakes in the DNA that would result in mutations that would then result in things like mitochondrial deficits or accelerated aging or an increased rate of telomere shortening, et cetera.
Hans: Right, right. If the DNA is not being repaired, you have a major blueprint damage for our next generations of proteins in the cell.
Ben: Okay, got it. So at this point, when it comes to DNA repair, one of the things that, when I first looked into this device that I kept seeing over and over again in your website was this concept of reactive oxygen species, or ROS as we call them. Where do ROSs fit in when it comes to DNA damage and DNA repair? Why is that something you talk about so much?
Hans: We have to start to explain the technology on a level that is commonly known, so we would jump a wide array in the process, what we are doing in the device, it would be a big gap in between what the majority of people know already and what we say. So we have to get a little bit more to the beginning, and you mentioned that our technology is called bio-identical signaling technology. Also that is a kind of cool name. So we have to explain where the signal is coming from, and here we have to go to the source. The source of the signal, of this process, are very specific kinds of reactive oxygen species. The reactive oxygen species, there are many bits produced by the mitochondrion with the ATP production. They're released in the cell, and we have a lot of information, a lot of paper out there that describe the redox signaling process and the damaging process of free radicals, but also now we have had for many years, are the important repair processes which are triggered by the reactive oxygen species. There's a lot of material out there.
Ben: So reactive oxygen species can trigger repair?
Hans: A very, very specific mechanism out of a very specific group from the reaction oxygen species is responsible for the repair to trigger the repair, yes, and these very specific rate of oxygen species is called activated oxygen, and to describe it, it is when you inhale the molecule and then the molecules are getting ripped apart. The oxygen molecules from time and electron is getting point a little bit further to the outside, and when this kind of added is released into the cell, the electron jumps back on the pre-found distance to the center, and when that happens, a very specific electromagnetic energy is being emitted as electrons. So that is the common process in all materials that we know fully. You put energy in, moving the electron further to the outside. That is called you excite the material, and then you stop to put the energy in. The so-called excitation energy that was absorbed is being released again if being emitted in the form of material-specific electromagnetic energy.
Ben: Okay, so basically, if I could interrupt really quickly, when you're talking about reactive oxygen species, specifically when it comes to DNA repair, what you're saying is that the process of the production of ATP is causing free radicals, and that certain reactive oxygen species, and I know reactive oxygen species could be things like nitric oxide or hydrogen peroxide or hydroxide radicals or super-oxide or all these different so-called antioxidants. You know a lot of people think reactive oxygen species are bad. Many of them act as antioxidants, those are essentially mopping up the free radicals, mopping up the cell membrane, the DNA damage, the mitochondrial damage and the protein damage that can occur through normal cellular metabolism, and what you're saying is what you're trying to do is create somehow more of these good reactive oxygen species?
Ben: Okay, now I feel like an idiot. Thank you. I'm just kidding, go ahead and explain this.
Hans: A lot of different reactive oxygen species are being produced in the cell. They are involved in the damaging process. Some of them are getting faded out by antioxidants, but there is one very specific reactive oxygen species that activated oxygen, and oxygen is in this activated state. It isn't free radical, it has to admit its excitation energy, and then it goes after admitting the excitation energy. It goes and is doing the bad thing, or it is connecting with an antioxidant and is being neutralized, yeah? But the admission of the electromagnetic energy into cells is an unavoidable process that happens in every oxygen species. We can measure it today, we can have instruments that we can measure how much of this kind of electromagnetic energy somebody is producing or a plant is producing. So that was one of the breakthroughs of the last seven years, or the last thirty years, that we were able actually to build some small sensors that we could measure this admission.
Electromagnetic energy, in this case, is not a visible light that we cannot see through, which basically means we are not glowing in the light, but the electromagnetic energy is the oxygen-specific energy, and if we look in Wikipedia or any other school book today, even in the high school books sometimes, they teach, and if a student ask what is wavelengths, that is oxygen is admitting and it's the right center, you can measure it when you're precise enough. This electromagnetic energy is being used into cells to repair, or better, to form, to create the freedom entrance structure of the proteins.
Ben: What you're saying is that you're not making more of these good reactive oxygen species? What you're doing is you're simulating the same electromagnetic wave that they would produce?
Hans: Yes, that is absolutely correct. It is very difficult to produce very precise free radical, huh? The production of the free radical is very often a diluted process that could create all kind of different free radicals. To be sure that you precisely only produce one kind that you want to produce is very difficult and very expensive to do. So that would not be relevant in a commercial thing, and because it is a catalytic process, it doesn't have a big outcome. Today we can do is that it's electronic devices. We have a very controlled process, we know what exactly what kind of electromagnetic we want to produce, how many we would like to produce, and we have a permanently on-going feedback system that pairs that we are actually producing it. So in our devices, it is not possible that you have a device that doesn't work because it will always test itself to make sure that you get what we are planned to produce with this device.
Ben: Okay, so reactive oxygen species actually create a certain amount of electricity. They create an electromagnetic wave, and you're simulating that same electromagnetic wave, but you're doing so by somehow creating that electromagnetic wave with a water molecule rather than a reactive oxygen species molecule.
Hans: Yeah, the electromagnetic is an electronic process that we produce in it. Now we have to go back for second back to the biology. You have to see what happens in the cell, to when the electromagnetic thing was produced and how is it possible that the protein gets it and it's utilizing it for its last formation into the three-dimensional shape. One thing that I would like to mention is we have a very good 3-D animation, video on our website, that explains this entire process in a very, very full magnitude.
Ben: I'll link to that video, for people who aren't getting this via audio, I'll link to that video over at bengreenfieldfitness.com/dnarepair.
Hans: Part of the biology we have to look in is a process of protein folding. Protein folding is a thermodynamic process. It's a pure physical process, not a chemical process, and a protein that is made out of amino acids in a chain has to fold in a very, very specific form, and then it is functional. The last forming process, the thermodynamic one needs energy. The surrounding of the protein, that is water that's surrounds the protein needs to get in a higher energy state, and rendered is enough for the protein that is surrounding it and the protein will fold. I think it will use the energy, it will stack the energy out of the environment. Even could make the next process to form into the three-dimensional shape and is changing. By doing it, it is changing its anthropy. This process is described for around twenty years in literature, in their biology, and a very important part of this was a University in Washington here in Seattle. They have a department for water science and there's Dr. Pollack in this department.
Ben: Oh yeah, I've interviewed Dr. Pollack before, he's extremely interesting. He's the guy that basically researches structured water and the idea that water carries a specific electrical charge that when present allows human cells to be able to better absorb that water or the water to be able to better pass through vessels, like whether it be a plant or a human vessel.
Hans: Yes, yes, that is one of those interesting things what water can do when water is entering into the fourth phase, and there are a lot of different things that the body is utilizing. In this case, in our case, this kind of water structure, water that is surrounding the unfolded protein, changes its structure by receiving, by plowing the electromagnetic energy. When now structures change happens to the water, the protein that is embedded in it, will basically suck it out, will use it to change its anthropy and form its final stage, so then it works.
From this kind of folding process is absolutely essential for living species. The proteins would never fold by itself into three-dimensional structure. If it wouldn't have the support by the water that is surrounding it. And Professor Pollack, like I said, he describes in detail the material science that happened to the water. Though when he described the structure of water in his books, in his publications, and you see worldwide bade he did, all because this has somehow a research department in the said area today. He described this in a very good animation from websites and other publications. Structure changes happens when water is able to absorb electromagnetic energy. It can only absorb very specific electromagnetic energy, and one of the electromagnetic energy that water's absorbing is exactly the energy that is emitted by the activated oxygen. So now you see how things are falling together. Water is able to absorb an energy that is provided by the activated oxygen in the cells and the embedded proteins in the water that absorbed it are now utilizing it for their folding process. So as more as this kind of electromagnetic thing that we have as more of the structured water is being bid around the protein and is available into cells as more the proteins, as fast as the protein can fold and repair itself.
Ben: That makes sense, so basically you're producing this signal inside the device without producing any reactive oxygen species, I obviously spoke wrong a few minutes ago. You corrected me. So you're transferring that signal into water, basically into humidity, and then when someone breathes, this humidified air, what happens is that same electromagnetic signal that would be produced by good reactive oxygen species, you're essentially just sucking in through your lungs and your nose, it goes straight into protein repair, straight into DNA repair, and you guys have now been studying in doing research on how this actually works within the body, and then you found that it actually works? You found that it actually results in DNA repair?
Hans: Yes, it was one of our first studies to show and to prove that effectiveness by using this technology will affect the protein, and we took the biggest trail of the protein-like molecule that is the DNA in the cell. They test equipment out there, and we did it in Austria, in Germany, so no Olympic training center, and all three have provided [0:37:14] ______ only damaging the DNA. We took the blood portion to a special company in Berlin, they were able to analyze the DNA damage. We took the group of athletes, they did a hard training, and after the training we draw the blood. Every day over the period of a week, we go doing it, equalize how fast is the DNA being repaired without using our technology in this group [0:37:43] ______ and then we let them rest for several weeks. We did the same thing and after the training, they used every day the NanoVi device, you know? And before the average repair improvement in less than a week was around seventeen to twenty percent, which is a really big high number in having support and faster DNA repair.
Ben: Wait, what are you measuring to measure DNA repair? What's the actual parameter you're measuring? Is not telomere length or something like that?
Hans: No, we are measuring the DNA directly. You measure how many DNA doubles or breaks are still in the blood, and then we compare the numbers after one week that will show us and the treatment raised on NanoVi technology is that people had around seventeen to twenty percent lesser DNA break after one week than the same people who didn't use NanoVi.
Ben: Holy cow, I didn't even know you could measure DNA repair like that, that's crazy. It's very cool though, this makes me feel good about using this thing.
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Anyways though, I'm just kidding, I actually know the names of my buddies. I'm trying to make you guys laugh. Anyways though, so Mind Pump. Here's how you find them, you go to iTunes, and you could just do a search for Mind Pump, you can find them there, or as they say nowadays, Apple podcasts, or you could go to mindpumpmedia.com or you could just google Mind Pump. Fantastic dudes, they are guys that I vouch for as being true icons in the fitness movement and guys who get it when it comes to digging through all the confusion and the BS that we tend to find in our fitness world. So check them out, Mind Pump Media, mindpumpmedia.com, or go check them out in Apple podcasts. Google search for Mind Pump, you'll dig these dudes.
Ben: So there's a lot of people listening in who may not want to repair DNA necessarily because of anti-aging goals, but some people might be more interested in, for example, exercise. Have you guys studied at all the effects of this on exercise performance?
Hans: Yes, we took another group of athletes at a different sport and university in Vienna, and we measured them. How fast they get rid of it in terms of training, how fast they get rid of the lactate. Production of lactate in concentrated extreme sport is unavoidable, but we would like to get it out. The lactate reduction, the body is a complex protein function. The faster you get it out, the faster you can train again.
In the same group, we used other markers. We used the inflammation response for these people and where we see after the training that people have a high inflammation, which is understandable because the heavy training damage cells, damage proteins, and the body has to react in the form of inflammation to repair those things. Inflammation markers should go up after training, and then go very fast, slow down would document the fast and the vessel repair of damages in the cells. We had the same thing, around seventeen up to twenty percent faster lactate reduction in the people, in the test groups, and around seventeen to twenty percent improvement in the inflammation markers, and that was a blind, double-controlled study. So the people who did use it didn't know what they're being tested if none of their devices were working or turned off, and I think it was even published in the university. I don't really know.
Ben: So if it's shutting down inflammation like that, should I be careful using this too soon after exercise? Wouldn't it potentially blunt the hormetic response exercise to exercise in the same way that like high dose antioxidants, like Vitamin C or Vitamin E might actually blunt the hormetic response to exercise? Would this be something to avoid post-exercise, or is the mechanism of action different? And the reason I ask that is because I know that for example, when you drink hydrogen-rich water, you use one of these fancy new hydrogen tablets. That's something that can quell the inflammatory response without blunting the hormetic response to exercise. That's one thing that I'm aware of that I can do that, but I'm curious in terms of this. Could it potentially quell the natural inflammatory process too much?
Hans: The inflammatory process after damage should be high. You like to have damage being repaired, and inflammation is one stage, a stage number two in the repair status, in the repair mechanism, and that was what we saw. That inflammation went down within a week, faster than the usual. It's only because at the beginning it was higher. We had more repair right at the beginning after the damage, and then it faded out faster. And when we had faster, no more inflammation with these people. So it actually supports the biological process of repair, it is not suppressing anything. ‘Cause if you use, for example, a lot of antioxidants, after damage, you can suppress the inflammation, and that is something you don't want to do because you would like to have repair done and finished as fast as possible. Sometimes we know that the inflammation process comes with uncomfortable side effects. It can hurt. You have a swelling, it can hurt. If you would like to suppress those things, then you use probably not our device. You would use an antioxidant and any endemic. Other things to stop the repair process, but that is not the usual way to go and the usual understanding of having a healthy life to suppress inflammation.
Ben: What's the difference between this then and using an antioxidant?
Hans: The antioxidant is trying in the body to catch a free radical that are produced in the cells, to catch them before they connect with other important components in the cell. So instead of having the free radical connecting with a protein and damaging it or having the free radical connecting with the DNA and damage the DNA. The body is producing by itself antioxidants or supplement so that these molecules are being now available for the free radicals to connect. So that is a prevention mode, but by knowing that the body produces six hundred and fifty quadrillion free radicals that is an extremely fast process and many free radicals are being produced. It uses right away the next molecule that it can find, yeah? It is not looking for where is my antioxidant molecule. It grabs right away the next molecule. So there's always a very strong question about what happens when we do the antioxidant treatment? Is that really getting it to the free radicals or is it something that the free radicals kind of ignore or could ignore and do their damage anyway? That is actually also that we see that too many antioxidants are causing other problems because it is interfering with other biochemical reactions and the cells which we would like to have, which is of biological importance. But the free radicals, too many antioxidants are suppressing them. Again a very healthy cycle.
Ben: Okay, so if I understand this correctly, when we look at antioxidants that would be used in different processes within the body to eliminate reactive oxygen species, reactive oxygen species molecules. Basically the antioxidant therapies would inhibit the oxidation that would be caused by reactive oxygen species by basically, more or less, catching the ROSs, but they eliminate, not only the reactive oxygen species that would act as free radicals, but they also would eliminate the reactive oxygen species that would act as beneficial signaling molecules. And so if you take in a bunch of antioxidants, especially post-exercise, it's going to handicap cellular repair functions because it eliminates both the good and the bad reactive oxygen species. Whereas if you were to, for example, just breathe in via water, the actual signal that the reactive oxygen species will be generating, you're going to get all of the beneficial aspects of taking an antioxidant without any of the detrimental aspects?
Hans: Yes, yes.
Ben: Interesting. Now what about these oxygen therapies, right? Like hyperbaric oxygen therapies or supplemental oxygen or exercise with oxygen therapy that would increase the percent of oxygen above normal levels, and a lot of people are using those. Is that going to be something that would affect this? Is this going to be something that you'd want to pair with the therapy like this because it's producing a lot of extra-reactive oxygen species? How does this compare to something like oxygen therapy or how would you use it along with something like oxygen therapy 'cause I do exercise with oxygen therapy. So at certain times during the day, even this morning. I did a thirty minute exercise session where I was using quite a bit of oxygen at a percentage high about normal levels.
Hans: Any oxygen treatment that is out there, it could be hyperbaric, it could be e-water exercise with oxygen, they will all benefit by doing it together. The main focus for an oxygen treatment is to produce more ATP, to bring oxygen through the breathing apparatus, through the transportation in the blood to the mitochondria where the mitochondria produces the most cell energy, more ATP. Why do we want it? Because we know that all these protein-controlled functions in the body are using the ATP for the chemical reaction. So basically you said you can have a lot of nice working, correct working proteins in the cells. If you don't have ATP, the fuel for the biochemical reactions, your body wouldn't work. So you need the fuel, the hyperbaric oxygen or the e-water, these are systems, process where you bring more oxygen to the ATP production and the biochemical reaction can start. As we heard in the beginning, when you produce ATP, you're producing unavoidable damaging component. They're damaged proteins, yeah? The combination of bringing more oxygen for the ATP production into the body and supporting with our technologies and the repair of proteins that are now able then to use the ATP for the very chemical reaction are pretty perfect.
Ben: Okay, I got it, this is really interesting. So it looks like for kind of like a bio-hackers lab, for example, to put together the ultimate man cave like I have, and this is actually how I have it set up right now just based on my own understanding of the topic. I'm happy I have the set up the right way. I've got my NanoVi device right here beside my desk. I have my oxygen therapy device behind me, and I could, for example, work out on my oxygen therapy device, do my protocol on that, and then when I go to work on my desk later on, like later on in the morning, I can just hook this NanoVi device up and use that to basically quell a lot of the reactive oxygen species that generated from that oxygen therapy and then still get all the benefits from the oxygen therapy with none of the damage.
Hans: Yes, yes.
Ben: Cool, I like it. Awesome, so how long are you supposed to use this because that's something I don't have my head fully wrapped around. Can I use it? ‘Cause I've turned it on a few times a day sometimes for thirty forty minutes, and other times I've just used it for fifteen minutes. I mean, can you use it too much or is it based on your own clinical research, a recommended period of time to use it for?
Hans: Yeah, one thing is how much time you have available. Time is always an issue, and a lot of people are looking for oh, maybe I can have twenty minutes, half an hour time break slot somewhere, and therefore we have different devices. In the high-end devices, they can say you use it fifteen minutes per day. That would be a good start. So to the upper side, yeah? How often can you use it maximum? Basically you can use it twenty-four hours a day. We are not into using it as a component that is forced to be metabolized in the body.
Ben: Hold, on, hold on. Based on what you just told me, just a minute, you might hear a little bubbling noise. I'm turning it on right now, I'm going to run this bad boy the rest of the podcast. There you go, boom. Do you hear the little bubbling noise? Oops, I dropped something. That bubbling noise, it's going right now. So if you guys hear a little bubbling, it's pretty to look at too. We'll put a photo in the show notes. So now I'm breathing this air, so I can do this every day for as long as I want?
Hans: Yes, there's only one little thing, and that is very individual. If there is a lot of repair going on into your body, you can sometimes feel it. Sometimes it's also uncomfortable for us, this repair, huh? Everybody knows, for example, that after a good party in the next morning, some people have the problem that they feel the repair that goes on in their head. So these kind of headaches, these repair processes after those damages can be possible to feel. That happens also with using the NanoVi devices, especially in the beginning, and repair is higher than usual. We have never used the device, so you stop slowly into it, and when you are setting up your body and your body is being used to it, then you can use it as much as you want, as long as you stay in your comfort level.
Ben: Okay, got it. So athletes could use this to accelerate the removal of lactic acid or pre-workout to accelerate lactic acid buffering and also to repair oxidative stress damage from exercises. People who are just trying to live longer or who are using like biohacking and using oxygen therapy, things like that. They can use it to quell some of the potential cellular damage and DNA damage that would be unavoidable from those activities, but have you studied this in any other situation? Aside from basic DNA repair, anti-aging or in athletes, are there other specific populations like chronic disease populations or other people that you found this would be especially beneficial for?
Hans: We have not studied on chronic diseases because that is with FDA registration, the FDA registers our product. In the moment, we study and publish it on a specific disease. Then the device can only be used with the specific disease and not anymore for something else. So we are not able and we are not interested to study and to tailor this device only for one disease. This device is tailored to improve the protein repair, the rest as what a lot of people today know, the protein and damaged proteins are the cause of chronic diseases, and when you insist the repair of proteins, and you probably will have a very beneficial outcome on a chronic disease.
Ben: Well you probably can't say it 'cause you'd get sued, but I can say it that there's a very interesting paper on PubMed that I found that talks about targeting DNA repair pathways for cancer treatment, and I thought that was very interesting. Obviously cancer, as a lot of people know if they listen to this podcast much, is a little bit of a metabolic, mitochondrial disease more than it is what we've been led to believe in the past. Just like pure genetic mutations gone array, but regardless. Once cancer has set in, it appears that DNA repair mechanisms can greatly affect the recovery from everything from like cytotoxic treatments, like chemotherapy, for example, to a lot of the damage that tumors can create because more mutations and DNA can occur as tumors accumulate progressively and a higher rate of DNA repair and protein repair could theoretically, and you don't have to say this 'cause I don't want you to get into trouble, but I would see this as being a pretty efficacious thing for cancer treatments as well. But obviously as you've alluded to, health, general health, anti-aging and athletic performance would be kind of like the big three that I'm seeing at this point that you guys can actually say this does work for based on research.
Hans: In the connection, it's cancer. There's one area that we definitely see how it is used and that is for the regeneration during and after cancer therapy, yeah? When people are using it in this situation, they are not targeting, they are not focused on the cancer tissue itself. When you have radiation or chemotherapy gone into your body, you have a lot of cellular damages on health and tissue, which is the cool at all damage during this process. If you are able to repair this still healthy tissue, regenerate faster, to perform back to the normal again, then you have a chance to go through the entire cancer therapy, so that the therapy itself will be successful. Whatever your doctor or your expert chooses for you, you have a faster regeneration during this time, and that is where we see where that is off to be paired in a cancer treatment. Again, not treating the cancer. Only treating the tissue area of the person that needs to regenerate faster where you still have enough regeneration capacity in.
Ben: Yeah, well I like this thing. I think it's amazing, and again I've been using it for the past four months, and I swear. It's just so easy 'cause I can sit on my desk and type and write and talk on the phone and talk to German biophysicists and be breathing my air at the same time, and I know you've got a few different models like your eco-model where the standard time is sixty sessions than the one that's twice as powerful which is the pro device. I have the XO just 'cause I'm an over-achiever which is I like four times more powerful than the base device, and that's what you'll find in a lot of homes. Even professional settings, I know a lot of physicians who are setting this up in their clinics. I think my friend, Dave Asprey, has one down in Santa Monica at his Bio Hackers lab down there. I know some chiropractic docs have them, and athletes, of course. You guys have a whole host of athletes who list on your site who are now using this thing, and I'm one of those as well.
So for people listening in, if you want to get access to a lot of the clinical studies that they've done on this as well as their pricing, check out the website and access the show notes, and I'll also put a link to my interview with Aubrey De Grey, that longevity interview that I mentioned. I'll also put a link to my interview with Gerald Pollack about the water in the show notes. Just go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/dnarepair. That's bengreenfieldfitness.com/dnarepair.
Hans, I want to thank you for coming on the show and sharing all this stuff with us. I think this NanoVi device is a game changer, and I try out a lot of devices, dude. I try a lot of stuff. I shove a lot of stuff up my butt and in my nose and take a lot of different supplements and try out all these fancy devices, but this is one of the ones that has a hallowed place in my office. So thanks for designing this in your secret Batman labs over there in Seattle.
Hans: Okay, it's not a secret if you can come in here with us, yeah? We are almost neighbors, you are in Spokane, and we are happy to share all this information and would guide you to other information too.
Ben: Awesome, next time I want to visit eighteen different Starbucks, I'll come over there to Seattle. Thanks for coming on the show, man. I appreciate it.
Hans: Okay, thank you very much, Ben.
Ben: Alright folks, well I'm Ben Greenfield along with Hans Eng from Eng3 Corporation. This device is called the NanoVi, I'll link to it over at bengreenfieldfitness.com/dnarepair, and thank you for listening. Have an amazing week, and until next time. Stay healthy, breathe some electro-stimulated air. There you have it. Alright folks, later.
For the past four months, I'd been breathing air from a special device on my desk – a device called a “NanoVi“. It gives me a clear head, better workouts and more focus – but the effects go deep, deep into the body and actually cause repair of DNA.
In today's podcast, I interview Hans Eng, who invented this device and explains exactly how it works.
Hans is President and CEO of Eng3 Corporation, a Seattle-based company that produces applied biophysics technology for the US and international markets. His 31 years of experience with advanced medical technologies includes working for Johnson & Johnson in Europe and the formation, growth, and successful sale of a German medical implant company. Hans has deep experience in research and development, production, and quality assurance for medical devices. An advanced Mechanical Engineering degree from the University of Applied Sciences, Berlin, combined with his background in material science and proteomics enabled Hans to develop the patented technology that underlies Eng3’s NanoVi products.
During our discussion, you'll discover:
-How Hans, as a biophysicist, developed a particular interest in repairing DNA damage…[8:40]
-How your DNA becomes damaged over 700,000 times per day…[16:05]
-Whether there is evidence that it can be repaired and if so, what is the mechanism for that…[20:12]
-The difference between good and bad reactive oxygen species (ROS's) and how this relates to DNA repair…[22:50]
-How Hans came up with the idea of this crazy contraption that now sits at my desk and that I use every single day…[29:40]
-The electromagnetic wave the NanoVi is exposing to the water that would assist with DNA repair…[30:20]
-The effects of the production of specific electromagnetic waves on physical performance…[42:05]
-How it should be timed for exercise (and whether it can be used during exercise)…[44:10]
-How the NanoVi compares to oxygen, exercise with oxygen therapy, hyperbaric oxygen and antioxidant therapies…[46:30 & 49:40]
-How long to use the NanoVi and whether it can be used every day…[53:00]
-And much more…
Resources from this episode:Eng3-M086-From_Redox_Homeostasis_to_Redox_Signaling_Therapy-rev02
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Do you have questions, thoughts or feedback for Hans or me? Leave your comments below and one of us will reply!