[2:05] Kimera Koffee
[4:49] Eric Remensperger
[10:22] Eric’s Fitness and Biohacking Journey
[28:16] The Non-Scientific View On Cancer
[37:54] Quick Commercial Break/GainsWave
[49:20] Believing Yourself Out Of Sickness
[52:25] Nutritional and Therapeutic Ketosis
[59:05] Hyperbaric Oxygen and Ozone Therapy
[1:06:31] Other Alternatives to Managing Cancering Cells
[1:23:44] Eric's “Quest To Cure Cancer” Website
[1:31:45] End of Podcast
Ben: Hey, what's up? It's Ben Greenfield. I'm in the backwoods of Idaho fly fishing with my kids. Hey, guys! Say hi!
Ben's Kids: Hi!
Ben: Who are here? Behind me. Texting emojis to mom. But I also have a fantastic, fantastic episode today. It's going to blow your mind to about cancer, and it's about my friend that cured himself of cancer. I think that's all I need to say. And you're really going to dig this one. Now before we jump in, I want to tell you about a couple of things. First of all, there's this new one-two punch combo, two very unique things that this company has figured out how to mix together for you to deliver to your gut. The first part of this one-two combo is called P3-OM, and P3-OM is the only nutrition supplement that has actually been shown to enhance the protein assimilation of digestive enzymes, which are the second component of this product. Proteolytic enzymes, like digestive enzymes and probiotics, work together to break down proteins and other nutrients, and anything you combine these with allows you to not only digest protein way faster, but allows you to release a whole bunch of neurotransmitters, fix your gut, increase mental clarity, focus, anything related to neurotransmitters, and vastly improve your digestion. If you haven't tried a combo like this, then I would highly recommend you check these folks out. So here's how you can go check this out and automatically get 10% off of both of the bottles. And again, one's called Masszymes, the other one's called P3-OM. And P3-OM is a probiotic. You go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/biopt, as in BiOptimizers. bengreenfieldfitness.com/biopt, that's B-I, like bisexual, or biphasic, or bi-fill-in-the-blanks-annual. Anyways, BiOptimizers. And you automatically get 10% off. No need to enter a code. Isn't that handy? So check that out.
Also in addition, if you want to drink the coffee that all the cool kids are drinking, including a whole bunch of people who've been on this show, Jujimufu, who's an anabolic acrobat. Guy's like a bodybuilder that does the full body splits in jeans with the barbell over his head. You may have seen him on America's Got Talent too. The folks from MindPump, the raw, shocking, always entertaining, no BS dudes that I've had on my show a few times before. Other people like Nick The Tooth who's a BJJ enthusiast and a guy who's got a great, great podcast, pro rally drivers, very hot women on Instagram, you can check all these people out, I'm not trying to be sexist, I'm just saying, they are hot, at kimerakoffee.com because they're all Kimera Koffee athletes, and ambassadors, and people who swear by this coffee that's mixed with nootropics to increase things like focus, and power output, and cognition. You can get a discount on your very own bag of Kimera Koffee. You don't have to hunt down one of these folks. You can just get it yourself. You use code Ben at kimerakoffee.com. That's KIMERAKOFFEE.com. Use Code Ben at kimerakoffee.com. Check it out. And now on to today's episode on cancer.
In this episode of The Ben Greenfield Fitness Show:
“Sunlight to me is absolutely crucial. Without vitamin D, and that's the best source of it, your body cannot produce GcMAF, which is a regulatory protein that supports your immune system and activates macrophages. It's necessary for shutting down those cells that could potentially be from cancer so they're no longer functioning the way they should.” “It aligns all your priorities. Suddenly, what's important to life is clear. And it's not only clear, but you just don't accept it, you compromise.”
Ben: Hey, folks. It's Ben Greenfield, and I actually met today's podcast guest randomly at a party at this conference called PaleoFX in Austin, Texas. We were both at a party put on by my friend Abel James, also known as the “Fat-Burning Man” online, and there were dozens and dozens of people, and I found myself standing in line at the food buffet with this guy who was basically telling me, in gory, nitty-gritty detail about this smoothie recipe that he drinks each morning that basically made what I call my morning big-ass smoothie sound like a complete joke. I mean this was like dozens and dozens of ingredients, super foods, you name it, in his special morning blend. Now I actually wound up publishing his entire shake online, and I'll link to that in the show notes here and I'll give you the URL of the show notes for a moment. But then by pure happenstance, or coincidence, or perhaps serendipity, I ran into this guy again down in Costa Rica just a couple of months ago. He attended a digital detox-slash-yoga retreat that I found myself at down in Costa Rica, and I learned that he's a lot more than just a guy who likes to put a whole bunch of crap in a blender.
He's actually a pretty serious biohacker and health enthusiast who's way on the cutting-edge of everything from supplementation, to health, to nutrition, to fitness, and beyond, and he has actually cured himself of cancer. As a matter of fact, it was just after I met him at PaleoFX that he found out he had cancer and he had spent the past several months leading up to when I ran into him a second time literally turning his entire life around. He has an incredible story. So incredible in fact, it was a story I learned while I sat with him on a bus on the way to one of the adventures that we had down there in Costa Rica that I just had to get him on the podcast to share his story with you. His name is Eric Remensperger, and Eric's been a practicing attorney for over 30 years heading up a west coast real estate practice near Santa Monica, California. But his health story is incredibly interesting, beginning when he was diagnosed last spring with stage four prostate cancer and what's called a Gleason score of 9, which he'll explains to us here shortly. But in terms of what he's done, how he's managed that, and how he's literally cured himself of it is incredibly fascinating. We're going to take a deep dive today into the science behind cancer, the various treatment protocols that he discovered, and what he's learned along the way. So I think this is going to be really, really fascinating for you, really useful for you, and really relevant to you especially if you or a loved one you know has had to deal with cancer. So Eric, welcome to the show, man.
Eric: Thank you, Ben. Thank you so much for having me. I'm a big fan and have been for a long time on my biohacking journey, as you say.
Ben: And I failed to mention, you're quite the yogi as well.
Eric: Thank you. It was fun. And I was very strategic when I grab that seat next to you on the bus because I did want to tell you my story because I think it is interesting and it could be interesting for your listeners as well. But there's one thing I want to just kind of lay out initially when we kind of start this whole process, and that is I'm definitely in remission and I'm happy to be in remission, but when people say cured cancer, I want people to be very clear, one of the things I discovered when I did the deep dive is that all of our bodies are producing potentially cancerous cells all the time. And so the difference between someone who is, as we say, suffering from cancer or a cancer patient, and a person who is not merely how the body's managing the disease. And we could talk a little bit about kind of how I ended up where I ended up when I first met you at the wine party across the street from PaleoFX and get into kind of how I found out about the cancer, I really want to talk about that. But I do want to be clear that I am now in a healthy state. So cancering, to me, is a verb not a noun. Your body's either cancering or it’s healing. What you want to do if you're suffering from cancer, which is a symptom of the disease, you want to try to get back to a healing state, and that's really what the journey was all about.
Ben: I don't think I've ever heard that term cancering. Did you make that up or…?
Eric: Well, yeah. Actually, it was a friend of mine, a doctor of Chinese medicine who originally came up with the phrase, and I adopted it because it made so much perfect sense to me. And were going to talk a little bit about how the energetic basis for cancer as a disease, and perhaps before we do that, I just got to give a quick summary of my history of becoming a biohacker. Because when I met you at the event, I had already been kind of pretty deep down the road of trying to be as healthy as I possibly could for a period of almost 20 years. Prior to that, I had no interest in health, no interest in nutrition, I was a heavy cigarette smoker, a heavy drinker, workaholic in New York, and really my best exercise was going outside to have a cigarette because my wife wouldn't let me smoke in the house at the time. And that was really where I was. And it wasn't until I moved to Los Angeles, and I quit smoking before I came out here, but when I moved to Los Angeles in 1995, I started off kind of just as a gym rat. I got into this whole kick of trying to improve my physique, and look better, and have more energy. And so this part of my no-longer-smoking is I started adopting a workout routine which really didn't do much to change my physique a lot, but it did provide me with a better sense of energy. And it was in 1995, a year or two after I moved to Los Angeles, after I took the California Bar Exam, I cited I was going to take the hour and a half I had each and every day taken off to study for the bar, and just use that time to really focus on my health.
Ben: Now was that just 'cause you felt crappy, or were you trying to get a six pack, or just improve productivity?
Eric: It was both. It was both. It was my marriage to the mother to my sons, that marriage was falling apart at the time, and I knew I was going to be back in the circulation and I didn't want to look as ready as I looked. But I also had just kind of a desire to kind of see if I could get my body to function better. So it was kind of a little of both.
Ben: Okay. Gotcha. So you kind of started down a hard core health journey then long before you found out you had cancer, you had really spent like the past 20 years beginning to delve into fitness?
Eric: Correct. That's right. And it really was my first exposure to alternative treatments which happened a few years after that when I was suffering some kind of chronic conditions. I had a chronic production of phlegm in my system, runny nose, cough, and I also would wake up several times in the middle of the evening to urinate. Both those conditions were just chronic for a long time. And so my allopathic doctors had done everything from chest x-rays to putting me on all sorts of pharmaceutical medications to try to address these conditions. Of course, none of them had even the slightest impact on the conditions. And then I got exposed to acupuncture, and that's really when my eyes got opened to this concept that there might be some alternative to my theory on what makes for health. And that's when the deep dive started, and that was in 1997. So from that point forward, I went through several different iterations. I adopted yoga and I became an avid yogi. I continued to do other workouts as well. I went through several different diets, from kind of a vegan, vegetarian diet, to the raw primal diet that you may have heard about from a guy named [0:13:40] ______.
Ben: Wait, are you talking about the raw primal diet, like the primal diet where you eat meat, like raw chicken. It's not just raw chicken, it's raw everything, right?
Eric: Yes, yes. It's a primarily protein-based diet with a lot of animal fat, lot of raw dairy, raw butter, raw everything. Raw honey, raw meat. And I did that for a while, and then I moved into more of, I guess what you'd call a paleo diet, which is where I was until early 2016 when I was kind of dabbling with ketosis. And so when I saw you, when I met you in May, I had already been kind of in this more strict ketogenic diet for about five or six months. And you saw my list of what the ingredients I put in my daily shake, so you can see that…
Ben: Oh, yeah. I'm going to publish that. And by the way, if you're listening in right now, bengreenfieldfitness.com/questtocurecancer. That's bengreenfieldfitness.com/questtocurecancer. I'll link over to my article about crazy exotic super food cocktails, and mind bending shake recipes, and Eric's recipe in full if you care to use your scrolling bar in your browser. A lot is in there.
Eric: Yeah. And there's going to be a lot of my site too. When we get to all of the protocols, you'll see I've taken that same obsessive compulsive disorder and applied it to trying to address cancer as a health condition. And it was interesting, it was literally that same weekend I met you in Austin, Texas that I first started having symptoms of a disease. Up until that point in time, I hadn't seen a doctor, except for, I had a ski accident and I had a dislocated shoulder that had to be fixed.
Ben: So at that point, you'd gone from cigarette smoking lawyer who had gotten a divorce to a 20 year health journey where you discovered things like Chinese acupuncture and super foods to put in your smoothie, but you had no clue that as you're standing there at PaleoFX in line for food talking to me that you had cancer?
Eric: That's correct.
Eric: That's correct. And it was actually that Sunday the next morning, maybe two mornings after we met, I think we met on Friday or Saturday night, that I first started having difficulty urinating and my bladder had spasms. And I attributed that too, there was an electostim machine that was demonstrated, I think you tried it out as well.
Ben: Yeah. That ARPwave that makes you feel like you've done a thousand crunches shoved in the two minutes.
Eric: Correct. And I had to put it on my abdominals and turn it up full blast, and I thought maybe that's what was causing my bladder spasm. Maybe I had short circuited my nervous system somehow.
Ben: Yeah. I could see that.
Eric: I didn't really pay a lot of attention to it, but it was very uncomfortable. So when I got back to Los Angeles, about a week after I arrived back in LA, I went to see a doctor who I just dug up out of the Dr. Google referrals because I didn't tend to see the doctor in so many years, I didn't have one in the Rolodex, and he took some blood, and he did a digital exam, and he, obviously we talked about my symptoms and he said, “If I were a betting man, I'd say you may have prostate cancer. You really should go see a urologist 'cause your prostate feels quite large and unusual,” was the word he used. And so I went to see a urologist who also did a digital exam and put me in his machine where he does ultrasound and said, “This does not look good. Let's go ahead and run a battery of tests.” So he immediately ran an MRI, a bone scan, a biopsy. All of this, the entire time, Ben, I was under the impression that what I had was prostate hyperplasia, that they were wrong, I was way too healthy to have cancer, and I just would wait until the actual biopsy results came in before I really freaked out about what was going on. And I remember when the biopsy results came in, he actually called me at home, I was sitting at home, watching television, trying to keep my mind off my condition, I generally don't watch TV. But he didn't candy coat it all. He said, “Eric, you have stage four prostate cancer, Gleason score 9, it's extremely aggressive. You need to see an oncologist as soon as you can.”
Ben: So stage four, Gleason score 9, that means that it's super aggressive?
Eric: Correct. And stage four just means that it's now out. It's outside of the prostate, it's affecting my lymph nodes, which in that groin area were all swollen and enlarged, and there was some evidence that it may be in the bones also in that same groin area. And once it's outside of the prostate, your standard of care is limited because they won't do surgery, which I was kind of grateful for because I now have a normal prostate, normal sized prostate and normal size lymph nodes. So surgery wasn't even an option. But he did refer me to an oncologist. Of course my initial reaction was complete shock as you can imagine. I literally was kind of stunned. I didn't know what to think. And really questioned a lot of what I've been doing, being organic, and healthy, and…
Ben: Well, yeah. I mean that's what, with all due respect, I hear that quite a bit. People say, “Ben, you do all these things, neurofeedback, and superfoods, and ketosis, and a strict exercise program, and foam rolling, and massage. What are you going to think if you're that guy who, all of a sudden, has a heart attack or gets cancer? Aren't you going to be kind of like a pie-in-my-face type of example?” And it sounds like you kind of had a similar process where it's like you were living very, very healthy. I mean I saw your shake. It's not like you were mainlining fructose in your bloodstream drinking eight apples and three pears from a Whole Foods juice bar. You were actually doing some things there that were pretty advanced in terms of health and nutrition.
Eric: Exactly. And you saw me in my yoga pants too. I mean for a guy who's 60 years old, I'm in great physical shape. And so I had no outward signs, there was nothing that I could point to…
Ben: Not that I make a habit out of sizing up guys in their yoga pants, just to clarify.
Eric: Yeah. So actually when I finally came to grips with what I was confronting, I just decided that this was going to be the rest of my life, really. I was going to take all of my passion, 'cause really up until that point in time, my passion really was wellness. And I'm using that in the broadest possible sense of the word. But I had this day job which consumed most of my time, and then I had my social life which consumed what was left, and so my passion really didn't have a chance to really manifest. And this having been diagnosed with prostate cancer, stage four, Gleason 9 was such a wake up call that I just decided, “Look, I'm just going to do as deep a dive as I possibly can into this, into the disease, to the cause of the disease, and what the treatment protocols look like.” And I'm really fortunate because as an attorney who's a partner in a law firm, my partners were just absolutely supportive as best a partner could possibly want. And they said, “Eric, look. Take whatever time you need and really kind of focus your attention on your disease that we'll just cover your back for you here at the office.” And so I was able to kind of really just jump in with both feet and do a very, very deep dive. And I really want to get to the bottom of what the cause might be because I felt if I didn't really understand the cause, and obviously everything I'm talking about here is theoretical, and my standard disclaimer is I'm not a doctor, and I can't give medical advice, and I don't purport to, but…
Ben: But at the same time, the cool thing that I've discovered is that because you're not a doctor, you can actually talk about some pretty fringe health concepts without, you knowing this as an attorney, the risk of some of the litigiousness that doctors would have to face if they did say some things.
Eric: And we're going to get into some fringe things here as well, I'm sure, on this podcast. But it seemed to me like wouldn't it make a lot of sense to decide what the right protocol was until I understood exactly what I was dealing with. Otherwise, I was just kind of following someone else's theory and not my own. And what we talked about when we rode on the bus, as the energetic cause of cancer, I'm going to get into that, but before I do that, what I'd like to do, just kind of lay out as briefly as I can, the science here is pretty deep and I don't want to take up too much of the podcast on that, but as I'm sure your listeners know, because this is nothing new for those that really want to be good biohackers, there are kind of two primary views as to what cancer results from. And again, I think cancer is a symptom of a disease, not a cause of the disease, and when we get to the roots of the problem, we'll see that. One is that it's a defect in DNA replication or a genetic mutation cause theory.
Ben: That's the first theory of cancers, that DNA is mutated.
Eric: Correct. And that's where most end of care is focused upon, although it doesn't really understand and it has not been able to really decipher a particular genetic cause, and therefore it just uses the same kind of scorched earth policy that medicine has been using for 70 or 80 ever since they first discovered that mustard gas could affect bone cancer. And so that's the one theory. And the second theory which, your listeners probably know this so I don't need to go too far into it, but Otto Warburg, a Nobel Laureate, discovered pretty early in the 19th Century, I think it was in 1928, he came to this theory that cancer was a metabolic disease, that it was an inability of cancer cells to respirate properly that caused them to convert to fermentation, their energy source, burning high amounts of glucose. And therefore, the problem lie within the metabolic system. He wasn't aware obviously of the mitochondria because we hadn't discovered the mitochondria then. And we have since, and that has kind of added additional credence to his theory, although it wasn't necessarily, he didn't get into the weeds on it.
Ben: Yeah. And actually, I have a whole podcast called “Why You've Been Lied To Cancer And What You Can Do About It” where I interview Dr. David Minkoff and we talk about this entire book, “Tripping Over The Truth – The Metabolic Theory Of Cancer”, and it gets into that, how cancer is technically an issue with your mitochondria going into a state of constant glycolysis and just churning out tons of lactic acid with a complete inability to be able to metabolize any fuel other than glucose. And that's one of the one of the main reasons for cancer, rather than it being a pure issue of just DNA mutation.
Eric: Right. And a good plug here for Travis Christofferson who wrote that book. For those of you who really want to understand the history of cancer in our current iteration, kind of how we went through the whole DNA process, studying DNA as the cause of cancer and the medical result of that, and also Warburg theory and where that is today, I think his book is the best book on that bar nine.
Ben: The “Tripping Over The Truth” book?
Eric: Yeah. Exactly. And here's an interesting little anecdotal point, Ben. I have interviewed and talked to no less than 12 different specialists, cancer specialists, oncologists, radiologists, urologists, doctors who specialize in cancer, and only two of them actually even were aware of that book.
Ben: That's crazy.
Eric: Ain't that crazy?
Ben: It’s so good because that book, I mean I'll tell some people who, they'll write in to the podcast or they'll write into me or to the support for the website and ask about my top recommendation for managing cancer or for “curing” cancer, and I recommend to them, even if they don't read all of the science, the nitty-gritty of the science in that book, which is also excellent, to just flip to the end the book where there's an entire, extremely practical section on healing your mitochondria and on a diet for managing cancer, and all the things that I say that I would do if I found out like you did that I had cancer. One of the very first things I would do is I would grab the book and just start to follow everything in the back of that book.
Eric: Yes, yes. And I think I read 14 books in 21 days after I got diagnosed. And some of them were really useful and some of them not so much, but that was one that I thought really kind of struck a chord with me, kind of fit into what I was seeing, these patterns within all the noise. And in the book, obviously he points out that Pete Peterson is the guy who first kind of came to the conclusion, the process with fermentation was really correlated with the effect of mitochondria. And a lot of the healing protocols that I have adopted really focus upon strengthening as best you can the mitochondria in your healthy cells and then obviously weakening as best you can your cancer cells. And before we get into those protocols, it might be kind of fun to talk a little bit about this whole energetic cause because it seems to me…
Ben: Yeah. I do want, sorry to interrupt. I do want to talk about that because that really is, during the discussion that I had with you on the bus, one of the really profound things that you mentioned that I think isn't discussed enough when people talk about cancer. They talk about some of the things you just harped on, like the metabolic there of cancer versus DNA mutating, what's happening on a scientific level. But when you look at, for example, Chinese medicine, you hear or see talk about like bone cancer being an issue with like built up years of anger or bitterness in one's body from an emotional standpoint. You see suppression of certain thoughts or feelings as potentially being another reason that cancer, the potential for cancer might build up within the body. And you had a really interesting take and insight on this whole link between emotions and cancer. So, yeah. I'd love to hear that.
Eric: Sure. And as kind of a nice way that, I think you know this whole Warburg theory and the mitochondrial defect theory are really, really helpful, but they don't really tell you how it is that it's healthy cells. ‘Cause cancer cells are not cells that are outside our body that suddenly get found within our body. They are cells within our body that convert from its normal form of respiration into this process of fermentation and proliferation. And so what is it that causes that otherwise healthy cell to decide to start using fermentation as its energy pathway rather than normal respiration, burning of oxygen? And traditional Chinese medicine has this concept of Qi, it's capital Q-I, but it's pronounced Qi, like C-H-I. And those who are familiar with Chinese medicine know that those Chinese medicine practitioners will manipulate this energy flow by taking pins and fine needles and putting them in these acupuncture points, these meridians in the body. But the actual Qi itself as it's understood by Chinese, traditional Chinese medicine, again this is not my air, my expertise, and so I'm just kind of basing on my best understanding of it, is these life force energy. In other words, it refers to all functions of the body and the mind, not just this meridian pathway, which is just the one that they can manipulate.
Ben: Right. It's more or less like the breath of life is one way that it's described. And not to derail your thought pattern too much, I don't know if I told you this, but my entire business that, about the time this podcast comes out, most folks are going to know this anyways, my entire new business that, I'm rebranding Greenfield Fitness Systems, and Ben Greenfield Fitness, and everything that I'm doing, and the entire focus of the business is complete integration of mind, body, and spirit health. I've taken a deep dive into Qi over the past several months just studying and learning how to optimize mind, body, and spirit using this concept of energy flow and optimizations of one's, not only one's chakras, but one's meridians, et cetera. And so, yeah, this is very relevant to me at the time.
Eric: Right. And so you know from those studies I'm sure you're well aware that it's really kind of, you can have an excess of energy, you can have an insufficiency, and you can have stagnation. It's the stagnation, that concept is the one that I think is the one I want to spend a minute or two on. Because in my view, it's that stagnation that kind of triggers this difficulty in the cellular level for respiratory function. And in my case, it's really, really obvious, is to me anyway, and again I'm just speaking from my own experience. I couldn't point any scientific evidence of this that what caused my development of cancer really was in large part, some other issues we're going to talk about, we talk about the protocols. But in large part, the result of the fact that I had this tremendous amount of stagnation in my root chakra, which is where the prostate is located. The prostate organ and the root chakra are both kind of the centers of procreative and protocreative energy.
Ben: Procreative and what energy?
Eric: And protocreative. Creativity. It's your desire to get out and conquer the world. They both come from the same impulse.
Ben: So basically like sex and creativity would be the two things associated with the root chakra.
Eric: Correct. And I'm talking about creativity as a drive kind of thing. It's that underlying drive that causes you to want to get out and get into the world and create things and do things. And both of those, for me, if I look back about four years prior to having been diagnosed with prostate cancer, I was in a stagnant place in both those areas of my life for about three years, I mean just completely stagnated. To the point where it was, even though I was outwardly physically very healthy, I was not, I hadn't had sex in three or four years.
Ben: Was that when you were married or you were divorced at the time?
Eric: I'm separated from my wife now, but she and I were married at the time. We had gone through a separation prior to that 'cause I had stepped out of the marriage and done things I shouldn't have done, and I really wanted to redeem myself, and I just decided that I really wanted to focus on other things, and sex was not important, and I just kind of shut that whole thing down which is…
Ben: Did she know that? Was that like something else that you were like hiding from her?
Eric: Yeah. I mean I don't want to be too personal 'cause obviously she's going to be listening to this podcast as others will too that I know, but yeah. I mean neither of us were having sex for that period of time. For all sorts of reasons. And I was also, I don't want to focus on the cause, that was kind of a, that created a stagnation within that kind of energetic flow. And in addition, I was really wanting to move into health and wellness, out of the practice of law even though I do, excuse me, I do love my job because I do it well and I've doing it a long time, it's a lot of fun, but it wasn't my passion. And here I was in my 50's thinking about what I want to do with my life, but I couldn't pull the trigger, I couldn't get out of that kind of, I want to do it but I can't. I can't even take the first step to making it happen. And I got a bunch of URLs and I came up with all sorts of ideas of how I could create some new kind of program that dealt with nutrition, or advice, whatever. None of it really had hit me as being kind of all that important or strong enough of a, it didn't inspire that impulse in a way that's strong enough to make me take the step.
Ben: It was almost like you knew deep down inside you wanted to do something and you weren't allowing yourself to do it in terms of like shifting to a different career that you felt called to?
Eric: Exactly. I was too comfortable and I was…
Ben: I hear that a lot. I mean I've talked to so many, especially older people who have warned me, or have written in books, or articles about how the one thing that they wished that they would have done would have been to explore something that they were extremely attracted to when they were younger, but just like kept pushing away, and pushing away, and pushing away, and eventually they found it was too late. I mean it's why in a couple weeks I'm going to play open mic night on a Tuesday night at a local place here in Spokane because I've always wanted to get up on stage and play my guitar and my ukulele, and it's why I'm putting the finishing touches on my fiction book right now 'cause I've always wanted to write a fantasy fiction book. And I'm trying to, and I'm totally not trying to like rub this in your face and say I went out and satisfied my creative outlet, but I'm pointing out the fact that, man, I think it really is one of the things you hear the most in terms like regrets people have on their deathbed is that they didn't go out and do the things that they felt really like called to or attracted to when they were younger.
Eric: Exactly, exactly. And I think your job, what you do for a living, I think has, and I'm kinda projecting and please forgive me for doing this, but you actually I think have, there's a lot of passion for what you do which is why you do it as well as you do it. And…
Ben: Yeah. But at the same time, like what I do, podcasting, and blogging, and doing like the whole fitness and nutrition biohacking thing, I'm called or extremely attracted to what I love to do when I was a kid, which was read, and write, and geek out, which I'm doing now. That is my job. But then the other two things that I really loved was music/singing/acting, just like doing that whole performance thing, and then writing, and writing fiction particularly. And so I'm trying not to neglect those things as I grow older.
Eric: No, you shouldn't. You shouldn't. And I feel blessed that I, actually, it kind of sounds odd to say this, but in hindsight it's not so difficult to say, is this whole shift in my journey has been a blessing because it really has, and for those who may have had a similar experience, I'd love for them to kind of reach out to me. It aligns all your priorities. Suddenly what's important to you in life is clear. And it's not only clear, but you just don't accept any compromises in that. Prior to that diagnosis, I was doing a lot of kind of monkey motion where I was kind of, I had some priorities and I do 'em as best I could, but I would center myself, or I would do things I really wasn't passionate about, spend time letting people abuse, whatever it was, whatever it was. I didn't have that experience. And once you have that experience, your priorities get lined up. Boy, life just becomes an absolute joy. It really does. And it's unfortunate that I had it now rather than later, I wish I had it earlier, but I don't know if I would have actually been able to bring all that I can bring to the table now if I hadn't kind of gone through what I went through. So the fact that I had to wait 'til I was 59 years old to get diagnosed with cancer may not be a bad thing 'cause it really gave me kind of a really good foundation to do this deep dive.
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Ben: Okay. So you were getting into the stagnation thing and the emotional causes of cancer.
Eric: Correct, correct. And I also looked at the work of a guy named Wilhem Reich, which we don't need to get deep on that, but he also looked at life force. But he looked at it as a scientist, not as a doctor of Chinese medicine. He found life force. He actually found it at a really high level of magnification in a microscope where he could see how from innate matter, life forms would get formed. And he called their two forms, that was the PA group which he called the orgone life form. And there was the T bions. They're both bions, PA bions and T bions. The T, also called T-bacilli, and that was a life form that kind of evolved…
Ben: Did you say biomes or bions?
Eric: B-I-O-N, like Nancy, as bions.
Eric: Okay? And the T-bacilli was kind of a biological energy that allowed for the putrefaction or degeneration of other forms. And the PA group, the positive was where light was, where you could see growth and life. And so his whole, he got really deep into the science, and I'm going to touch on some of this on my site because it's quite fascinating. But he said all life process comes from this kind of biological pulsation or alternation of contraction and expansion which you find in everything from single cell organisms, to the plasma of the blood, the intestines, the autonomic nervous system, the cardiovascular system. And anytime there's insufficient respiration, the biological weakness results in kind of being vulnerable to this T bion, or the T-bacilli. And so he really kind of agreed with Warburg that a cancer cell is a different metabolic pathway due to oxygen deficiency, but he said it was the result, and he found this kind of protozoal formation that happens that actually occurs once the autonomic nervous system ceases to function as it should. And that's what he really did is he dived in it.
So I found his work to be fascinating 'cause it kind of, and to me, they both tied into the same thing which is this suffocation of the cell nuclei where the inability of the mitochondria to function the way it should be at the biological level. So I really get into that. And then I try to apply all this to my own experiences and say, “Okay, where was I during that period of time when this cancer was developing in my system that I was completely unaware of?” And it was when I was completely stagnating and I really didn't have that kind of that, it's going to sound a little hokey, but that joy you have when you get out of bed in the morning, you just want to get out and enjoy life. And so if you kind of look at it at that level, it all kind of fits together. And I wanted to be able to have, as an attorney I look at context, I want to be able see how all these pieces could actually all fit together. I do think there's a genetic mutation issue with cancer, but I don't think it's the cause, I think it's the effect. And it may happen very early in the process when these cells first go through the process of not respirating the way they should, that's when the effects occur. But again, the genetic defects may help facilitate the spread and growth of the disease, but they don't necessarily cause the disease.
Ben: So what you're saying is that the issue with mitochondrial respiration, which is described in the book “Tripping Over The Truth”, is preceded by like a stagnation of Qi due to some of the emotional issues that, for example, Wilhelm Reich discovered in some of his experiments?
Ben: Okay. And by the way, for those of you listening in, I know of a couple of books by Wilhelm Reich, “The Cancer,” I think “The Cancer Biopathy” is one. And then he has another book where he just talks about all his bion experiments that he did. I'll hunt those down and link to 'em in the show notes over at bengreenfieldfitness.com/questtocurecancer if you want to take a deeper dive into that stuff. But it makes sense, right? Like you mess things up emotionally, you stagnate your body, and then it sounds like, Eric, what you're saying is because of that, that's when you like start the dominoes falling in terms of the issues with mitochondrial respiration. Although I should throw in there, and I don't know what you think about this, that's not to say that there aren't a lot of other crappy things you can do when it comes to setting up yourself for poor mitochondrial function, right? Like high amounts of oxidation from a lot of sugar consumption, or huge amounts of exposure to WiFi and electrical signals, and there's a lot that goes on there with mitochondria. And I had a lot of really interesting podcast with Dr. Mercola and he acts as a new book coming out where he talks a lot about mitochondrial health, and I'll link to my previous podcast with him, but it's not as though you can be like a happy go lucky, let's say, pastor's kid with perfect emotions and a wonderful outlook on life but eat Twinkies and sit in front of a WiFi router all day long, you could still have some pretty crappy mitochondria, right?
Eric: I think that's right. I don't mean to suggest that every form of cancer is all caused by this, but I would imagine, I'm just venturing a guess that a large percentage of them are. ‘Cause to me, in my view, our bodies are designed to heal themselves, and this is part of traditional Chinese medicine. And most illnesses are caused by these blockages that are created either physically, or emotionally, or both. Usually, they're tied together. But you have a certain amount of stressors that you're going to be confronting day to day, and the body can handle 'em as long as you don't exceed the capacity of your stressors, unless you have a weak genetic link and those stressors overwhelm your body, and I think what you're referring to about sugar and sitting in front of the TV or next to a WiFi machine, all these things are stressors on the body. Just sitting in traffic, listening to the news is a stressor on the bottom. These are all things that eventually accumulate to the point where your body's going to start to break down.
And so the inability of the mitochondria to function could definitely be caused, no question about it, by environmental toxins. Not just emotional toxins. But I would say, and this is, I think I feel pretty strongly this way, and I'd love to get your thoughts on this, Ben, is that you would be much healthier, although you may not look great, if you had really kind of good healthy relationships in your life, you have strong passion, good purpose, you had good sleep, you really lived a life where you just didn't have the emotional stress. And you could eat McDonald's every day, and you could drink Coca-Cola, and you're going to look great, it's not necessarily going to kill you. You could have the person like me who, and I'm an example of this, who has been eating organic, and hadn't smoked since 1992, and was very, only clean water, nothing, I wouldn't drink coffee unless it was organic, I wouldn't eat meat unless it was grass-fed, all these healthy things, I was a vegetarian for a while. But if I didn't have that kind of passion, purpose, healthy relationships, stress management part of my life, I'm still going to have a breakdown. My body's still going to suffer a breakdown. So I'm saying that as between those two, the foundational principles as I call it, when I get into protocols, stress management.
Ben: Yeah. And to touch on that, there's a really good book I just finished called “Surrender: The pathway,” or “Letting Go: The Pathway Of Surrender” by David Hawkins, and in that book, and also in another really good book called “The Biology of Belief” by Bruce Lipton, they go on to the fact that even more important than like eating, healthy exercising is your emotional outlook on your health and how you can believe yourself into a state of sickness even if you're a healthy person. And at the same time, if you're an unhealthy person, eating deep fried Twinkies you can, as silly as this may seem, if you really are convinced that your body is able to process that, and deal with that, and heal itself, you're actually a lower risk for that causing issues.
I know there's a whole bunch of scientists and nutritionists laughing their [censored] off right now, but it really is something that I'm convinced of, that you can make yourself somewhat more bulletproof to a lot of the modern assailants or a lot of the unhealthy things that you expose your body to if you're simply of the belief that your body is a pretty cool machine that is able to withstand a lot of those stressors versus you being the orthorexic person who wants to live life in a bubble, who freaks out when, say, like a molecule of mercury touches your food, and all of a sudden believes that you're going to get mad hatter’s disease, like you probably are much more likely to than if you believe that your body was going to be able to deal with that toxin, process it, remove it, and move on. It's an interesting concept. It makes sense to me, and I really do think that's something that more people, especially in our orthorexic health sphere should be a little bit more aware of.
Eric: Yeah. And to those scientists that would scoff at you, Ben, for saying that, I would dearly point to the placebo and the nocebo effect, which I don't think anybody who does a deep dive into kind of impact of nutritional intervention could ignore how effective those two things can be in outcome of it. So, clearly that's supportive of what you just referenced in those books. The very first thing I did, and it's interesting how I ended up stumbling upon this as my first protocol, is I did an eight day water fast. And the reason I did that is 'cause I originally wanted to do a cleanse.
Ben: Was like a week after, like right after? Like in relation to us being at PaleoFX, when did you do the water fast?
Eric: I didn't actually know I had cancer until July 20th. So it was about a month and a week or two after I met you. Because I had all the battery of tests, and I actually had a CT scan for my oncologist, and et cetera. And so it was literally, I think I started the water fast, I actually started one fast before I had these tests. I started the water fast, I think it was probably the first or second week of June. So it was probably a week or two after I met you. And the reason I did that is because I decided I really just wanted to do a cleanse initially, and I had been reading a book, one of the first books I read, which I don't recommend it all that highly. But in that book, they talk about doing this cleanse that involves cayenne pepper, lemon juice, and maple syrup, grade C maple syrup which you can't buy anymore.
Ben: One question. Is that the master cleanse?
Eric: Yeah. It's the master cleanse. And half a day of that and I just went into sugar shock. And I said, “This is definitely not going to work for me.” My body is just freaking out.
Ben: It's kind of funny how it's called a fast, but you're eating like 1200 calories of maple syrup a day and mainlining sugar into your bloodstream.
Eric: Exactly. And I thought, “Okay, this is not going to work.” And so I decided I was just going to do a water fast, and I was going to do a 10-day water fast, but after day eight, my body said, “Okay, it's time to eat.” But I'm convinced that was a smart thing to do in hindsight because I also decided to move my ketogenic from nutritional ketosis to therapeutic ketosis, which is a much higher level of ketosis. And that's kind of where I started, one of my protocols kind of started there.
Ben: So if nutritional ketosis is like 1.0 or so, is therapeutic above 3?
Eric: Yeah. Nutritional is 0.5. Technically if you're 0.5, you're in ketosis. Therapeutic, you have to over 2.0.
Eric: And hopefully higher than, 3 and 4.
Ben: And therapeutic would be more along the lines of what you'd want to use to manage disease?
Eric: Correct, correct. But I'd like to take a little side bar if I can here because in my studies, I also stumbled upon, of course, the whole Gerson therapy, and this plant based diet as a therapeutic way of addressing cancer. And it's hard to ignore the anecdotal results from that therapy. And so I was trying to reconcile the two 'cause I knew ketogenic was extremely effective within my theory about cancer with the mitochondria, and not having glucose in your system, et cetera. So I thought to myself, “How are both these diets equally effective in addressing cancer?” And I could talk briefly on how my diet is as evolved to where it is today, but I was at the Metabolic Therapeutics Conference in Tampa, Florida early of the first week of February and I met a Dr. Que Collins there, its signature looks like Cigna Health…
Ben: What's his name?
Eric: Dr. Q, Q-U-E, Collins. And they're looking into deuterium depletion. I don't know if you're even aware of what deuterium is. It's also called heavy hydrogen. I don't want to spend a ton of time of this, but I was fascinated by it because deuterium is in the atmosphere, it's like 0.015% of what's out there is hydrogen, it's a heavy form of hydrogen in the atmosphere. But hydrogen is crucial for the functioning of the mitochondria, the conversion of, the creation of ATP. I don't want to go through the whole process. I couldn't if I wanted. And what they're discovering is that by depleting deuterium, you can actually help affect the outcomes in any illness that's fostered by poor mitochondrial function, including cancer. And I was talking to this doctor, I was talking to Dr. Que and I said, “Could you please help me understand how it is that if I eat a ton of vegetables, I get good results, if I eat a ton of fat, I get good results.” The ketogenic diet and the Gerson therapy, although Gerson does have too much carbohydrates, but they both seem to be very effective. And he said, “Yeah. Because both are deuterium depletion diets. They're both diets that will reduce the amount of deuterium in your system.”
And it doesn't take much. I mean you could drink deuterium, low deuterium water, and your normal level ratio of hydrogen to deuterium, or deuterium to hydrogen for example, is one deuterium molecule for every 6,472 normal hydrogen molecules. And all that you need to do to get the therapeutic benefit is to drop that to one to 6,418 or something like that. So based on the science as we know it, this is brand new science, both of those diets seem to have the same kind of therapeutic effect. And my diet, as you might imagine, has turned into this kind of heavily plant-based ketogenic diet. I do have animal protein, but I use it selectively for nutritional value. And my protein levels are whatever my body needs to maintain muscle mass and functionality.
Ben: Yeah. You stick to it pretty well, by the way, 'cause we had some freakin' awesome bomb buffets there in Costa Rica, and I remember you were walking around I think one night with like a plate full of nuts while everybody else was just like geeking out on freaking like pork tacos, and corn, and mangoes, and all this jazz, and you're just standing there notched on nuts. The deuterium depleted water though, that makes sense what you're saying about the deuterium to proton ratio and kind of like adjusting those concentrations within the body to allow for better mitochondrial function. But where the heck do you get this deuterium depleted water?
Eric: Well that's, actually helping the folks at Signature Health, they're going to try to get it imported here United States. It's manufactured somewhere in Eastern Europe today. And I'm not, obviously, I don't know enough about it to even recommend it, but I do think that diet is important as part of the elements of the protocol in addition to this whole stress management. And I also want to touch briefly if I can too on detoxification because, and I'm talking about emotional stuff, which we talk about, and environmental detoxification. There is clearly a correlation between cancer and fungus growth, and I think it's a result of the creation of the lactic acid lactate. Anybody, I'm told by more than one integrative doctor that anybody has cancer below the diaphragm, which clearly prostate cancer, ovary cancer, these are all diet cancers, colon cancers, should be taking nystatin for the rest of their lives. These are doctors that don't prescribe prescription drugs. Or you can use their other methods, essiac tea, there are other methods of addressing…
Ben: You mean nystatin, like the anti-fungal medication?
Eric: Yes, yes. That's the only pharmaceutical drug I'm currently taking. There are other ways to address it, but detoxification I think is the first step before you get into nutrition.
Ben: Is that because a fungal infection can affect the health of the mitochondria?
Eric: I think it affects the ability of your healthy cells to fend off the cancer production.
Ben: Okay. So even if you don't have like a candida, or a yeast, or a fungal infection when you have cancer, you're still recommending that people look into the use of something like nystatin?
Eric: Correct. And again, I'm not a doctor, but please talk to your doctor about it. See if your…
Ben: Notice how I phrased that very carefully. I didn't say you were prescribing.
Eric: No. No, I won't even purport to do that. And another major component I think, which if you look at kind of the whole metabolic process that leads to cancer is what I call oxygenation, which is kind of a broad-based component of the protocols. It covers a lot of different things. If you've been following the works of Dom D'agostino, and Tom Seyfried, and some of the others who are really focused on cancer as a metabolic disease, they generally will recommend hyperbaric oxygen therapy as a therapy for cancer. And I think it's, based on the research that I've done, it's incumbent on anybody who's struggling with the potential of metastases or cancer spreading should absolutely be doing hyperbaric treatment. Because what it does is it forces oxygen throughout your system, and you want to get as much oxygenation if you can, and there are things you can do to do that. But back in 1980, there was a study done that showed that if you get exposed to ozone, which is another treatment I do, as little as .8 parts per million that it reduced cancer cell growth by about 90% 'cause cancers don't have the ability to defend against ozone. But health cells…
Ben: Can you explain to people listening in how concentrating oxygen in something like a hyperbaric chamber and also exposing cells to ozone would affect cancer?
Eric: Sure. And again I'm not a scientist, I'm an attorney. So I'm just looking at context reading other people's studies. But cancer is unable to burn oxygen. We know that. That's the Warburg theory. So it is unable to respirate oxygen. So in the presence of oxygen, it doesn't have any oxygen in and of itself, doesn't have any kind of therapeutic benefit to cancer as to help it continue to proliferate. However, all of the surrounding cells within the region where the cancer is do have and thrive on access to oxygen. And I'm just now reading a book that I think you recommended in one of your podcasts called “The Oxygen Advantage”, I'm about halfway through it, and this really doesn't get so much into exactly what I'm talking about here, but he talks a lot about the importance of carbon dioxide and the process of assimilating oxygen into our cells. And I think the assimilation of oxygen into our cells is part of what strengthens our cells. So this goes back to the original premise that you want to look at cancer not as necessarily some external disease that somehow grows in your system, but a bunch of cells in your system that haven't been addressed properly. Apoptosis didn't step in when it should have and shut them down for whatever reason. And now due to lack of oxygen, they're starting to burn energy through the fermentation process.
And so what you want to do is, almost, this is going to sound, I think people are going to probably choke on it when I say it if they're cancer doctors, but you almost want to take these cancer cells and convert them back into healthy cells. And I'm convinced you could do that depending on where they are in the cancering process, how far along they are in the cancering process. If they're obviously, if they're completely shot, you're not going to do that. But if they're early in that process where they're just initiating this change in production, you can actually do that and you do that through introducing oxygen into their universe, into their little cellular world.
Ben: And how would the oxygen do that? How would it convert it back into a healthy cell?
Eric: Well, it just allows the cells to, I think, adapt their original before the conversion process of the original metabolic pathway before they converted over to fermentation.
Ben: So it allows the cell to begin to produce energy via the use of oxygen rather than to produce energy aerobically and produce lactic acid?
Eric: Correct, correct. That's I think why cancer always thrives better when there's less oxygen and does a lot worse when there is, which is why hyperbaric oxygen is a treatment that's shown to be so effective. There was a gentleman I met when I was in Tampa who had glioblastoma and actually had the tumor removed from his brain, and he was doing the ketogenic diet, and he was doing a lot of kind of alternative therapies, and he was also I think doing some standard care. But when he did the, I think, the MRI showed that he still had, but it showed that he was completely cancer free. But when he did a thermal imaging picture of the brain where you look at kind of this conversion into these new cells based on, I guess, the temperature of the cells, they discovered that he still had cancer cells throughout his brain that kind of dispersed before he had the surgery. And so he did hyperbaric oxygen, and it completely shut that down. So now even in the thermal imaging scan, it shows absolutely no cancer whatsoever. And so that's pretty powerful. And it was hyperbaric that the only thing he changed between…
Ben: Did he do the ozone therapy as well?
Eric: He probably did, although I didn't discuss that with him directly. I do ozone. I do it I think the way you do it, although I do it every day. You don't have to do it daily, but I do rectal insufflation ozone as a daily treatment.
Ben: You need a machine to actually make ozone to do rectal ozone therapy, right?
Ben: ‘Cause I have a countertop water ozonator. And usually what I'll do, and I'm only doing this a couple days a week, is I'll drink a big glass of that water on an empty stomach, and then only about once a month will I shoot it up my butt and do a little ozone water enema. But that's a lot different than the type of rectal ozone therapy that you're doing. You're not just like shooting ozonated water up your butt, right?
Eric: No, no, no. I wish I could do once a month. That would be nice. Now what I do is I actually have a machine that you hook up to an oxygen tank, and it creates ozone gas, and you put it into a plastic bladder, and then you attach it to a catheter which you stick up your nether regions, and then you just squeeze the gas out, and you hold it in for 20 minutes, whatever you can. And because you have a lot of assimilation, assimilative capacity blood vessels in your colon, if that's a word, this ozone actually gets into your system pretty effectively. And it's also near the prostate, which is kind of a blessing for me.
Ben: Yeah. I didn't think of that. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. So you do the ozonated enemas, or the ozonated, you call the sufflation machine?
Eric: I-N-S-U-L, it's insulfflation. It's rectal insulfflation…
Ben: Rectal insulfflation.
Eric: Yeah. And you can buy this machine for like five or 600 bucks.
Ben: Okay. And in addition to that, another thing that I think you mentioned, there was something else though, in addition to the ozone. So far you've talked about the nystatin anti-fungal, hyperbaric oxygen, ozone therapy, therapeutic, not nutritional, ketosis, looking into deuterium depleted water, of course we talked about the emotional component as well. What are some of the other big wins that you found in terms of managing this thing? And then after you go into that, I want to hear about your, I guess some people will call it claims that cure yourself of cancer, like how you know, like what's actually happened that can prove to you that this stuff is effective?
Eric: Yes. Okay, yeah. That's a nice way to kind of wrap all this stuff back. I also looked into, well let me tell you, I did use standard of care. I did use androgen deprivation therapy, which is also called chemical castration. And that's kind of all the standard of care doctors really said, “Well, that's the best we can do is we're going to just shut down your body's production of testosterone.” I mean really shut it down, so it's zero. You would be producing zero testosterone.
Eric: Because that's something that can starve the cancer. And so to me, allopathic medicine is extremely effective at addressing acute conditions. And my cancer, I thought, was far enough along to have acute elements that I didn't want to just go alternative, I wanted to use some standard of care. But I'm not sure, it's hard to say how impactful that was. It really is. Because before you start these shots, which you can do semi-annually, once every six months, or you could do every three months, quarterly, or you can do monthly, and I opted for monthly because I wanted to cycle off as soon as I could because I was worried about how that would impact the rest of the function of your body. Can you imagine having no testosterone at all in your system? None.
Ben: No. What is it that you're using to chemically castrate yourself?
Eric: Lupron is the brand name. I'm not sure exactly what the chemical name is, or the pharmaceutical name is. And there are different versions of Lupron. But it's a shot you get, it's an intramuscular shot, the needle's the size of a horse needle and you do it, I was doing it monthly. But it's interesting, before you actually get your first Lupron shot, they put you on a pill called Casodex which turns off your receptors for testosterone. The reason they do that is because when you get your first Lupron shot, you get a spike in testosterone and they don't want that ‘cause it could really fuel the growth of cancer. And so they have you take in a Casodex shot first, say, two weeks before you get your first shot. And so I got my very first Lupron shot, and I had my blood taken the day I got it, and my PSA level when I got it tested when I first was diagnosed was 21.1, which is far in excess of where you want to be. And they say over 10 is like a little bit cancer, and I was at 21.1. My next PSA test was done when I got blood taken the day I got my first Lupron shot. Now granted I had been taking Casodex for about two weeks, my PSA level had dropped to 1.86. So the Lupron had nothing to do with it 'cause I got the blood taken before I got the Lupron put in my system. My monthly blood test the following month was down to 0.23, and since then, and I cycled off of Lupron two and a half, three months ago, it's been 0.05. Now I'm not saying I'll never take Lupron again or I'm completely out of the woods, I'm kind of jumping to the conclusion here, but I did see a significant decline which I think the doctors, they should probably say this is not usual, in my PSA levels. And I attribute a lot of that to my protocols.
Ben: How is it that that would actually shut down PSA?
Eric: Well, I think it just closes down your prostate. I mean I also have…
Ben: So this wouldn't be something you would necessarily do like if you had colon cancer or breast cancer, it's specifically for the prostate?
Eric: Only prostate. Exactly.
Ben: Okay. Got it.
Eric: Now let's talk about some of the other treatment therapy, which obviously chemotherapy was pushed on me and I said no. Radiology was pushed on me, of course the radiologists want you to do radiology, the oncologists want you to do chemotherapy, and oh by the way, a lot of people don't know this, oncology is the only branch of medicine where the doctor not only prescribes, but sells you the drugs. In other words every other branch of medicine, to my knowledge, you go to see a doctor, they write a prescription, and then a pharmacist would still fill the prescription. But there is, I'm not saying oncologists do anything that's out of line with trying to do the best for their patients, but there's a misalignment of incentives when you have that huge profit center 'cause they buy the drug for 600 bucks, they sell it to your insurance company for five or 6,000 bucks. But anyway, so I decided I didn't want to do chemotherapy because I felt like it was far too aggressive and I was worried about the impact it would have on other functions and cells in my body. But I did want to do some sort of, both supporting my immune system and some toxicology, which would be I guess the considered more natural version of chemotherapy. I couldn't come up with a lot, there's not a lot out there. There is B-17. which you may know about, which are from apricot pits, believe it or not, and you can buy those at very fancy health food stores, but they'll say [1:11:22] ______ you talk to a doctor before you use this 'cause it's very toxic. But it's very toxic to cancer cells and it's really not that toxic to healthy cells.
Ben: That's called B-17?
Eric: It's vitamin B17, and it's found in apricot pits. You can also take it as a supplement too.
Ben: And it's considered to be a toxin?
Eric: So it's completely a toxin, yes.
Ben: Okay. So kind of similar to how like almonds have a toxin in them, these pits or, what did you say it's a pit of? A peach?
Ben: An apricot. Okay.
Eric: Remember when you were a kid, they say, “Don't eat the apple seeds ‘cause they have arsenic in it.” I think a lot of fruit seeds have these. But there really not toxic to a healthy cell. Now they say if you're pregnant, or some problem with pneumonia or something, you shouldn't be eating this stuff because you have a compromised immune system, whatever. But I think for purposes of addressing a chronic disease like cancer, you would want to hit it with everything you could. I mean it's a really multi-modal approach. Another one is Artesunate, which I get an IV injection every week, which is a derivative of the wormwood tree that also has kind of a toxicological effect. It's used for other ailments, it's only been used for cancer recently. And then there's kind of all the immunotherapy stuff that you want to do. You have glutathione, and high dose vitamin C, iscador, also called mistletoe or Viscum, which is primarily used in Germany, but it's an aqua-based medicine that helps fire up the immune system. These are all, there's a ton of these kind of treatment protocols, and Ben, I was doing everything I could fit into my schedule, I was doing.
Ben: Yeah. I want to ask you about those antioxidants in a second, but just to backpedal for a second, those toxins, the apricot pit, B-17 based toxin, and the wormwood toxin, and by the way, wormwood grows like weed on my property, there's a ton of it, for shutting down cancer, do those toxins have an effect on other parts of your body? Like do you feel crappy when you use that stuff and why not if it's a toxin?
Eric: Because it's not affecting your healthy cells. It does not affect your healthy cells.
Ben: So it'll only affect cancerous cells?
Eric: Correct. Yes. Cells that have defective mitochondria is what I like to…
Ben: Interesting. It's so fascinating a plant-based medicines like that can be selective. That's really interesting. And you're using antioxidants as well?
Eric: I am, I am. It's interesting 'cause that same [1:13:58] ______ you referenced at the beginning of this one about my shake, I think you had a piece in there about Pau D'arco tea.
Ben: Yeah. Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. I've got a big pitcher of this stuff in my refrigerator, like I drink it every day. I feel like a rock star. I go through like eight ounces of it a day.
Eric: That came up in several of books I read that talk about alternative, kind of more herbal cancer treatments. And so I decided to adopt that, and I used your version of it with the sunflower lecithin and the ceylon cinnamon, and I also put in two teaspoons of organic turmeric powder. And I do that with some Brain Octane, and I do that and drink it with all of my supplements. So when I do my stack of supplements, I drink it with that tea 'cause I think it has…
Ben: Yeah. It makes a ton of stuff more bioavailable, and that's exactly what I do, a ton of turmeric, I started adding black pepper to it, you blend it up with something like sunflower lecithin or some other fat source, and this is all from a guy who we mentioned earlier in the show, Dr. Mercola, what I consider to be one of my most valuable mentors when it comes to managing my mitochondria. The dude is a wealth of information. He introduced this recipe to me, and I drank it like it's going out of style. And by the way, if you're listening in and you want that recipe, it's actually on the same blog post where I published Eric's shake recipe. So just go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/questtocurecancer, and I'll put that in the resources section that you can find there. But you're basically doing that, Eric, along with, you said glutathione?
Eric: Well, I do glutathione intravenously. I do IV glutathione with high dose vitamin C. I'm doing 75 grams intravenously.
Ben: Not at the same time as the glutathione?
Eric: No. I do the glutathione on day one, and I do the artesunate and high dose vitamin C on day two.
Ben: Right. I was going to say the vitamin C can, I believe it creates too acidic an environment for glutathione to survive so you got to split the two up.
Eric: Correct. That's exactly right.
Ben: Okay. So this is a lot of stuff that you, I mean obviously if I had cancer, man, I would, first thing I would do honestly is, I sound like I'm tooting my own horn, I would go to the resources list for everything that we're talking about right now because this is exactly the kind of things, the practical advice I wanted to dig into. But before we move on, after mentioning the glutathione and the vitamin C injections, are there any other big wins that you wanted to make sure that you mentioned that you feel were like super crucial for you?
Eric: Well I would say that, jeez, there's so many avenues I could go on this. Sunlight to me is absolutely crucial. There’s the sunlight on a regular basis is absolutely crucial. Without vitamin D, and that's the best source of it, your body cannot produce GcMAF, which is a regulatory protein that supports your immune system and activates macrophages.
Eric: GcMAF, yes. It's part of your immune system and it's necessary for shutting down those cells that could potentially become cancer so they're no longer functioning the way that should. That's an area that kind of little bit testy only because the federal government and the European, some of the governments in England, I think, not all governments, I think Japan and Germany, makes GcMAF as a cancer treatment. But they literally are trying to do their best to prevent anybody from having access to it, and I'm not sure exactly why that's the case. Nagalese is what causes the cells to not be, it takes a little misleading to say that it prevents your cancer cells from being detected by your immune system. Nagalese levels checked when you go see a functional doctor. But I think…
Ben: What do you call it? Nagalese?
Eric: Nagalese, N-A-G-A-L-E-S-E. I think perhaps a more accurate statement is that GcMAF is there, it'll attack your cancer cells, but nagalese will impact or impair the ability of your body to produce GcMAF.
Ben: Okay. And when you would get exposed to sunlight, that somehow modifies your vitamin D to allow you to produce more of your natural levels of GcMAF?
Ben: Okay. Interesting.
Eric: Correct. Then there are other ways you can do it.
Ben: Did you get like a tanning bed or you were just doing sunshine?
Eric: No, I actually have, I'm fortunate, I live in Southern California and I have a little tanning deck where I can lay out like you do sometimes completely naked and get as much sun as I can. And so I do that on any sunny day, when I'm at home I'll do that for at least 20 minutes just to make sure I'm getting my sunlight, my vitamin D levels up. And I do, I obviously supplement on top of that as well. I mean there's a lot more we can get into and I know we don't have time for everything, but I did want to circle back to your original question as kind of how you know if you're cured or not. And I think the answer is, there's really two answers here. One is no one's ever completely out of the woods. Everyone has cancer cells being produced in the body all the time. It's just that the difference between my body and your body is your body is managing it quite well. Mine, for whatever reason, hasn't been.
And so what I want to do is get back into that managing-quite-well stage, which is what talked about, cancering versus healing. And so I don't like to use the word cure, I like to use the word managing, or it's just my body is now in the healing state. And the way I know that is I have, obviously my PSA levels are a good indicator that it's completely shut down, 'cause that's the only indicator they have for prostate cancer, not for other cancers. And I also had my urologist do an ultrasound and digital exam, and he was shocked. He was absolutely shocked when he said your lymph nodes look perfectly normal, your prostate feels perfectly normal. Everything looks perfectly fine. There's no indication anywhere in your groin area that there's anything cancerous going on down there.
Ben: Was he surprised?
Eric: Yes. He was very surprised. Now I think an MRI is going to help support that, and I'm scheduling an MRI done next month. Give it a couple months after I'm out of the woods before I actually put myself through another MRI. I mean everything is functioning the way it is, I feel great, other than the surgery I had on Friday which I told you about early in the call for my hernia. (laughs)
Ben: Yeah. You mentioned that before we started recording. You got a hernia. Was that just from training or from you wearing your yoga pants too tight?
Eric: It burns me up, Ben. It burns me up. I had a lymph node removed 20 years ago, I had I just moved to Los Angeles, 1995. And the reason why I had the lymph node removed is because remember early on the conversation, I was talking about how I had been on this exercise kick, and I became a gym rat, and I went from being kind of skinny fat to being muscle toned?
Ben: Yeah. I think you were telling me when we were in Costal Rica. You were spending like 90 minutes to two hours in the gym like every day.
Eric: I went to the gym for 90 minutes every single day. And I was eating nothing but kind of high protein, low fat, Myoplex shakes after…
Ben: Yeah. You were on the Men's Fitness Magazine workout.
Eric: I was definitely doing the Men's Fitness Magazine workout to the tee. And as a result of that fact, I lost so much body weight that I noticed two spots in my groin area, in my pelvic region where I had lymph nodes. They were nothing wrong with them, but I hadn't noticed them before because I always had body fat there. And of course, being a little bit obsessive about this sort of thing, and I kept pointing it out to my doctor, “What is this?” And the first time I pointed it out, he said, “Those are your lymph nodes. If you never noticed them before, they might be swollen. We should check those out because you might have lymphoma.” And initially I just say, “Oh, your nuts.” Six months later, I was seeing him for something else. I don't even remember what it was, a flu shot, whatever it was, and he said, “So, did you ever get your lymph nodes checked?” I said no. He said, “Look, if you don't have 'em checked you're going to die if you have lymphoma. If you catch it early, we can save your life.” And so back then, of course, I hadn't even discovered Chinese medicine or anything else. I was completely sold on Western medicine, and so I had him put me on a gurney, and they put me out, they removed the lymph node from my groin, 'cause, I don't know, that's how they did it back then. And they said, “Oh, no. It's a perfectly healthy lymph node.” Well, guess what? You're now short one lymph node. And, by the way, you have a hole in your fascia, in your muscle sheath in your groin area. So fast forward 20 years later when you're doing all these ozone insulfflation, coffee enema stuff, your intestines are looking for an exit. Guess what they're going to find?
Ben: Oh, no. So it's not like you punctured a hole in yourself with like an enema tube or something like that. They just got out from a weak spot?
Eric: Right where I had that lymph node removed. There was a weak spot there. That was so, two surgeries, completely unnecessary.
Ben: Wow. That's crazy. So you had the hernia issue, but now you're just back to your normal workout routine?
Eric: Once I get fully healed, I will be. Yes. I'm on complete shutdown for four weeks, but that's fine.
Ben: Okay. Gotcha. So PSA is down, you're going to get an MRI to show for a fact that you actually have gotten this thing completely into remission?
Eric: Correct, correct. All my symptoms are zero. So symptomilogically, it's completely zero.
Ben: Okay. So you've logged this whole process over at this Quest To Cure Cancer website, and I know that's one thing that you definitely mentioned to me you wanted to tell people about on the show. So tell me what you're doing on that.
Eric: Okay, yeah. This is something that by the time this is actually published, this podcast, hopefully it'll be up and running 'cause I'm working diligently on it now. But what I wanted to do is I spent a considerable amount of time, and energy, and brain power not only prior to getting cancer just by virtue of my passion for wellness, but really since then doing a deep dive, and I want to make this information useful and available to others who either are facing that diagnosis or are trying to avoid that. ‘Cause a lot of these protocols, there are a certain amount of protocols that are just generally healthy, just keep your mitochondria functioning the way it should, and keep your immune system functioning the way it should so you never have to go down this path. And so my goal is to kind of create that site, and I also want to have a Facebook community, which by the way, I didn't have a Facebook page until a couple months ago when I decided to build this site, so I'm the last person who understands what Facebook is, but I do want to have a place people can go to kind of interact with one another, ask questions, get a better sense for what's working, what's not.
I think one of the things that people face when initially confronting these issues is “do I just follow the advice I'm given by one doctor,” “do I need to talk to my friends,” “can I rely on someone else who has had a good result and think that I can have that good result”. I mean there's just a ton of questions that you're going to have to kind of get comfortable with. And my goal really is to just create a resource for those who want to take charge of their healing process. Or at least active in the process, find doctors who you can work with and really find protocols that work for you, and get yourself back into that healing state because cancering is just part of the normal human process. You got to get the management of that back to where it should be.
Ben: And so this Quest To Cure Cancer, it's not like something people have to necessarily pay for to access? It's like free advice that you're putting out there?
Eric: Yeah, I think. I'm way too early in the process to even think about what it's going to openly turn into. And so initially it's all just going to be free. I just want to get it out there. And then later on, I don't know, maybe I can figure out some way of having a membership for people that really want to kind of get more hands on, or one one one, or deeper dive, that sort of thing. It's early in the process. I think the goal here is just to kind of get it out there.
Ben: Yeah. And honestly I'm glad you're doing it because the things that, I know that you've mentioned on this podcast but that you were talking to me about down in Costa Rica, I mean you really, I think, have kind of like combined your ability to see the big picture as an attorney, and then also those 20 years you spent geeking out on health before you found out that you had cancer, and then what you've discovered since then. I mean you have kind of this unique, well-informed approach that I wanted to make sure people know about when it comes to being able to manage something like this in a pretty natural way. But obviously, you're open to modern medicine as well. I'm mean you're using like nystatin, you chemically castrated yourself, I mean you're one of those guys who's into more than just like juicing and ketosis. So I really appreciate your perspective on this. And I'm sure folks listening in are probably going to have questions. And Eric, I know you're a podcast listener, you're probably familiar with the show notes and stuff like that, but if people wanted to leave questions on or comments on the show notes, are you willing to pop on there and point people in the right direction?
Eric: I would be happy to do that, Ben. It would be my honor to be able to do that. I think the more feedback you get from your audience, I'll eventually have my own podcast just focusing on cancer, and the people that would have on there would be the usual suspects. But I would have experts on hyperbaric oxygen, you know what I mean? Or nagalese, GcMAF. Just so people who want to weaves have the ability to do that. ‘Cause that's what I'm doing. Why not just push the record button while I do it?
Ben: Yeah. It'd be a super cool resource. I definitely think so. Get Dr. Mercola, and Dr. Minkoff, and Dominic D'agostino, and a lot of these folks on there. I think it'd be really cool. And specifically have them talk about cancer. Well I'm going to put, I've been taking notes like mad. So all the different books that we recommended, honestly, I'll put all the previous podcasts that I also have done on cancer, not only the one I mentioned with Dr. Mercola and Dr. Minkoff, but also I interviewed this guy, speaking of the emotional causes for cancer, this professional basketball player when I was over in Israel, I sat down in his back garden and interviewed him in northern Galilee, and he talked a lot about emotional causes for cancer, and kind of like the process of letting go of a lot of your underlying negative beliefs, and negative emotions, and pent up bitterness, and anger, and setting things right with people that you love, and all these things that I think are just as important as any amount of like ozone up the butt or anything else.
I'll link to that podcast and a lot of the other podcasts and blog posts that I've done on cancer because it really is I think a fairly misunderstood disease and something that people can manage in a lot more intelligent way, and in a way that goes above and beyond just the pure radiation and chemotherapy that modern medicine has to offer if they know how to navigate these pathways. So if you're listening in, all the show notes over at bengreenfieldfitness.com/questtocurecancer. I know we said some things during this podcast that you might disagree with, but please be nice if you get on there. I'm pretty open-minded. I pretty much publish any comment anybody leaves, unless you've got like some product you're too heavily trying to push, something like that, or you have like some kind of an obvious agenda, or if it's just pure spam and you're trying to sell Nike's from Taiwan. Other than that though, I'll publish your comment, and we'll also get discussion going around it. So bengreenfieldfitness.com/questtocurecancer is where you can go for that. And Eric, thank you for coming on the show and so generously sharing all this stuff with us, man.
Eric: Thank you, Ben, for giving me this opportunity. And I love what you do, so keep doing what you do. I'm excited about your new venture too.
Ben: Oh, yeah, dude. For sure. I'll be filling the whole world in on it. Hopefully very soon. Maybe even before this podcast is released. So in the meantime, everybody, thank you for listening in, and I'm Ben Greenfield along with Eric Remensperger signing out from bengreenfieldfitness.com. Have a healthy week.
My guest on today's podcast, Eric Remensperger, has been a practicing attorney for over 30 years. He is a partner at a major law firm, Proskauer, where he heads up the West Coast real estate practice.
But that’s not the most interesting part. Eric is also a major-league biohacker who has cured himself of cancer.
I first met Eric at the PaleofX conference last May, and you may have seen his “daily shake” ingredients which appeared at the end of a blog I posted in July of last year entitled “6 Crazy, Exotic Superfood Cocktails, Shakes & Mind-Bending Recipes”…
I ran into Eric again in December at the Runga event in Costa Rica, where he told me an incredible story about how his life had changed. In a nutshell, his decades long obsession with health and wellness hit the fastlane when he was diagnosed last spring with stage IV prostate cancer (with a Gleason score of 9), and as a result of that he did an incredibly deep dive into the science behind cancer and the various treatment protocols, some of which I’m sure we’ll get into on the podcast.
For those of you who are concerned about cancer, or have been touched by it, I think you will find this a very interesting conversation.
As a non-health-care professional who has gone from stage IV metastatic cancer to full remission, Eric can speak freely about his experiences and what he has learned (and continues to learn) about the theories on the causes of cancer and the premises behind the various treatment modalities. His goal is to assist those who wish to take charge of their own care by providing the information needed to better assist them in working with their doctors and healthcare professionals to find the best path to manage the disease by shifting from “cancering” to the body’s natural state of “healing”. Eric lives in Santa Monica, CA, where he is an advanced yogi and a health nut.
During our discussion, you'll discover:
-How Eric went from a cigarette-smoking, divorced lawyer to a complete yogi enthusiast and health nut, far before he found out he had cancer…[10:22]
-The one book that stood out from the 21 books Eric read in the 14 days after discovering he had cancer…[24:05]
-How “Qi” stagnation and emotional issues can cause cancer…[28:50]
-The fascinating experiments by Wilhelm Reich in which he discovered something called “bions” that can precede cancer…[42:00]
-The way that quantum physics and vibrational energies can allow you to believe yourself into a state of sickness (and vice versa)…[49:20]
-The importance difference between nutritional ketosis and therapeutic ketosis…[52:25]
-What Eric discovered about deuterium depletion and it's link to cancer…[54:25]
-The one pharmaceutical anti-fungal drug that Eric takes and recommends looking into for anyone who has cancer…[57:40]
-Why Eric swears by a one-two combo of hyperbaric oxygen and ozone therapy via rectal insufflation for killing cancer cells…[59:05]
-Why Eric completely shut down his testosterone levels and chemically castrated himself…[66:45]
-The role of apricot pits and wormwood toxins for shutting down cancer cells…[71:10]
-The Pau D' Arco tea blend that both Ben and Eric drink every day to support their mitochondria and cellular health…[74:00]
-Why sunlight is crucial to producing something called “GcMAF”, a crucial component of your immune system…[76:42]
-And much more!
Resources from this episode: